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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-02 > 1138913529


From: "Mark MacDonald" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Colla vs Dalriata
Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 15:05:31 -0600
In-Reply-To: <5b.797c682e.3113c3df@aol.com>


John

It indicates that O Byrne was right in asserting that the paternal line of
the ONeills( 13 25 14 11) did not have a common source with the Collas( 13
24 14 10) for more than 2500+ years. They probably were intermarried
heavily but not the same paternally. That portion of the Conn descent
stories is untrue. Of course, we don't know if Conn was a historic person,
whether there was some adoption, or adultery or which line was not
descended from paternally descended from Conn. Furthermore, the correct
signature of Neil is difficult to infer and not free from doubt. There is
an argument that it could be AMH ( 13 24 14 11 ) instead of the one
selected. Patrick Guinness once privately referred to him as Neill of the
nine lineages because there is so much variation in the potential original
signature.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 2:22 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [DNA] Colla vs Dalriata


In a message dated 2/2/2006 12:09:10 P.M. Central Standard Time,
writes:

Similarly, the quote from the unidentified unidentified Kintyre chief of
the
MacDonalds in no way suggests anything contrary to Colla; we agree that the
principal paternal ancestors of the largest group of MacDonalds settled in
Scotland before 600 " during pictish times.". That is exactly what I'm now
saying. The traditional death of Fergus was about 500 AD. The wars with
the picts were still periodically arising until after 830 AD.



Skene was quoting his current clan chieftain about the ancient stoke - but
the date itself (1,000 years ago) came from a chieftain in the 1600s. That

would place his date of origin for the MacDonalds in the Isles from 500 AD.
or
thereabouts. I agree Skene is foolish in stating this places it in
"Pictish"
times thereby implying the MacDonalds were Picts. But this is probably a
highly nebulous reference to the Scottish Dal Riata which had nothing to do

with the Collas.

Speaking of the Collas, they should show very close DNA connections to
the
Ui Neill, based on their origin story and legends, which make them close
relatives. And anyone who pays any attention to the surnames listed in the

Trinity College DNA article on descendants of Nial should know Nial could
not be
the ancestor of O Rourke, O Reilly and O Connor of Connacht. The common
ancestor must therefore be in one of Nial's ancestors, which places the
link even
closer to the Collas. Yet we are finding no Ui Neill connections in DNA
between the Ui Neill and the Collas or more precisely, the Airgialla of
Ireland.
The Maguires do not match the Ui Neill pattern; nor do their kin, the
McAuleys and McManuses. The McMahons do not as well.

What does this mean in terms of the legends of the Three Collas?

John


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