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From: "Ian & Mary Logan" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup N1 versus A2 versus D3
Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 09:37:20 -0000
References: <16582623.1139043396454.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>


Hello George

Good to see initial contact has been made.

I suggest there is no argument that you are N* - i.e. belonging to a haplogroup that arises
at the N* point.

But are you Haplogroup A - which would have, for example, a mutation at 663 (as mentioned by
Alfred)
or,
are you Haplogroup N1 - which would have, for example, a mutation at 10238 (again, as mentioned by
Alfred)

(The numbers given from the 'Fragment' testing come from where the test starts - so their numbers
can be a few bases away from mutation being tested).

And, I would guess they haven't done either as yet. But they may well have done '235'.
In any case they shouldn't have guessed you are N1, when the overall results are so typically 'A'.

We all look forward to the response in a week's time.

(PS. 11 mutations is HVR-1 must be near the record. Some Haplogroup L0 results have
about the same number - but they have lots of changes in the variable area of 16182-16193
and counting mutations from this area is a bit arbitrary.)

Ian

......................
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup N1 versus A2 versus D3


I just received an email from FTDNA. They first determine whether you are + at 10871MnlI (the email
said "+ at bp 10873" but I think that's a typo). If so, you are assigned to haplogroup N. They
then use a "set of defining" rules to assign you to a subset of N. The email did not specify those
rules. The email says that the rules are very good but not perfect. The person who sent the email
to me doesn't yet have access to my records, so he is unable to say how I tested. He promised to
talk about my case with FTDNA's mtDNA scientists and get back with me in a week or so. George
....................
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Alfred A. Aburto Jr." <>
>
>The thing that is going on here, as Bonnie said, is that the mtDNA
>haplogroups are defined by more than the mutations in the HVS-1 region.
>For example there is another mutation called +663HaeIII which with HVS-1
>mutations 16223T, 16290T, and 16319A are used to define haplogroup A. I
>found a website that shows these relationships (old but it help me
>understand how the mtDNA haplogroups are defined --- I'm new to all this
>too): http://www.stats.gla.ac.uk/~vincent/founder2000/motif.html
>
>In this reference you'll see that that N1 is defined by the mutation
>+10237Hph1 and the HVS-1 mutation 16223T. The other HVS-1 mutations that
>we have mean something of course in defining subclades, but I think more
>work needs to be done to figure that all out.
>
>I'm hoping that when the Genographic Project says we are N1 or A, that
>they have actually checked those other mutations in that web page above
>(+663HaeIII for example for A or +10237Hph1 for N1)! It is not stated
>anywhere though, so I am not sure.


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