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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-02 > 1139594320


From: "Mark MacDonald" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Colla vs Dalriata
Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 12:12:02 -0600
In-Reply-To: <fa.24a3b182.311d6c28@aol.com>


Len

I would never intentionally attack your status as The OCahan nor your fine
work in collecting and analyzing samples including the McKeans at 9 9 for
459 and 19 19 for YCA who are in both of our projects. I have appreciated
your cooperation in attempting to solve these issues of joint importance to
each of us. I was surprised by Trinity's conclusion selecting one signature
from among the legitimate competitors.

Looking today at your website and seeing the frustration in the
bureaucratic structures to recognize your Chief status, further explains
your sensitivity. My choice of words may have been poor. In any event I
wasn't just referring to your personal signature but also some other
signatures you have collected. Recall that I am a 33 at 449 so I am
personally familiar with very very low percentage markers in the 13 24 14 10
11 15 group. That being said, your 8 9 at 459 is quite distinctive for the
R1bs I have seen as is your 464 results of 13 13 15 17. You have a Buchanan
with 12 12 17 17 which is unusual and totally unlike the Scottish Buchanan
study. You have our mystery McKeans from the Route or Argyle with 9 9 at
459 and 19 19 at YCA. You also have 13 24 14 10 Hagans and McKeans. It is
a very diverse and challenging R1b group, each of which appears closely
associated with the ONeills generally or OCahan territory.

Please take no offense. None was intended.

Mark MacDonald

-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 10:10 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [DNA] Colla vs Dalriata

In a message dated 2/9/2006 2:28:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
, Mark MacDonald writes:

<...We knew that Somerled was paternally norse which took our chiefs out of

the
equation and we knew that whether the O Neills were AMH , 13 25 14 11 or
some of the esoteric versions found by Len OCahan's project, that it was
unlikely we could ever confirm or deny Conn's signature if he was in fact a
historic person because we would never reach a consensus on O Neill.
Mark>:

Respectfully, I would like to know what you mean by my "esoteric versions"
?

I 'm in agreement that it may never be possible to know whether the
dynastic O'NEILLs were 13-25-14-11 , or 13-24-14-11, or 13-24-14-10, but
there is
absolutely nothing esoteric in my personal 37-marker results, nor in any of

the results of anyone in my Y-DNA project.

My book, "The Warrior Clan of Ulster - Descent of the Chiefship of the
Princely Ulster House of OCathain, 800 AD - 2000 AD" is in the US Library
of
Congress. Everything is out in the open. I have indeed denied details to
certain critics of the Irish chiefly concept, and the "chiefest"' of them
has four
times changed his assessment when confronted by the facts.

I am the self-declared Chief of Clan O'Cahan (properly so; there is NO
other
authority beyond the family), based on a very well-documented pedigree
(which of course claims descent from King Niall 'of the Nine Hostages') +
Y-DNA, .
I'm unconvinced of that affiliation, but I've seen many examples cited on

this Forum of multiple mismatches within very few generations.

You seem to place some emphasis on the 13-24-14-10, but that change from
11
could have taken place in a single generation. Could you elaborate?
Likewise, the DYS #390 of 25 found in the numerous O'KANEs, McCAINs, etc,
of the
Dungiven (Glengiven) area of Co. Derry (the Ciannachta) could have occurred
in
a single generation anytime before or after ca. 600 AD when they were
settled (Annals of Ulster) in and around Dungiven by the O'NEILLs,
possibly as
male-line relatives, but perhaps female line. By ca. 1130 their possible

distant cousins (at least in female line, as there were inter-marriages
between
them), the dynastic O'CAHANs, the "Warrior Clan of Ulster", took political

control of the Ciannachta, including their titles.

Here is my haplotype for review. I have a number of close 37 Marker
matches
in Co. Clare, each of which can be explained in very plausible O'Cahan
historical context, both pre-surname and in recent centuries, -:

13 24 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29
17 8 9 11 11 25 15 18 29 13 13 15 17
11 11 19 23 15 14 18 17 35 39 12 12

If I misinterpreted your reference to 'esoteric', I apologize, but I've
invested 30 years of research in my lineage, so I'm sure you'll understand
if I
take issue with what may appear as a misleading or negative implication.
If
I were to become convinced of a fundamental error in my genealogy I would
be the first to announce it. One thing I would never do is to claim a false

lineage.

Leonard M. Keane, Jr., LTC (USAR, MI - Ret.),
The O'Cahan





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