GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-02 > 1140112220


From: "rlivingston1488" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Scots/Dalriata and NW Irish/Ui Neill - those clans
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 09:53:50 -0800
References: <23f.7016e32.31258578@aol.com>


Once again, thanks John for the very in-depth history you bring to the
table.

> A suggestion: The main group of Cruithin or Picts in Ireland who
retained
> territory and status throughout the centuries were the Dal nAraidhe of
> northern Ireland; their chieftain was McGuinness and there are 99 DNA
samples
> listed in the Trinity College study; also 3 for Guinness. Another surname
> associated with Maguinness is MacArtain. I'm sure you already have the
DNA markers
> from the Trinity study. I don't see any McGuiness etc. in Ysearch.

Thank you for the list of surnames associated with the Dal Araidhe. Two
that you curiously seemed to have missed are O'Floinn/Flynn and
O'Loingsich/Lynch. I was taking a look at these surnames recently because
it was the Cruithne of Dal Araidhe who were the coarbs of St. Moluag, a
member of the Dal Araidhe himself, who established the monastary of Lismore
(in Scotland, not Ireland) in the 6th century. This tribe was responsible
for establishing as many religious institutions in Scotland as St. Columba's
tribe, the Ui Niall. In so doing, they amassed a considerable amount of
power and property in Scotland by continuously sending sons from their noble
families to fill the ecclisiastical offices of the abbeys.
Since my family are the current so-called "coarbs" of St. Moluag (we are
the keepers of his crosier in Lismore), it occured to me that my DNA (which
falls into the Scots Cluster haplogroup) might be a match to that of the
Flynns or Lynches. It turns out that we are NOT a match to the several
Flynns and Lynches that I found in the Sorenson database. The Flynn is a
perfect 28/28 match to WAMH, and the Lynches are a 25/28 match to the
Flynns - a good indicator that I had picked the right Flynns and Lynches to
look at.
One of the last references in the Annals of Ulster that can be
associated with Lismore in Scotland, was the death of a Lismore bishop named
Maelmaire O'Loingsich (a Lynch), who died in 1159. One of the earliest
abbots of Lismore recorded in a Scottish MS written in the mid 15th century,
was an ancestor of the MacLean chiefs, named Cuduilig. No date for his life
is given, but it can be interpolated to have been about the same time as the
death of O'Loingsich in the late 12th century. So it was a pleasant surprise
to find that a single McLain in the y-search database was a perfect 28/28
match to my Sorenson Lynch.
This didn't help me with my search for the identity of my own "Scots
Cluster group", but it does give us a good lead as to the character of the
Cruithne haplogroup (and by association, the Pict nobility, if they are one
in the same) - plain old WAHM!

Rob










>
> Two other major chieftains in Ireland are said to descend from the same
> Cruithin stock:
>
> O Conchubhair of Ciarraidhe [O'Connor Kerry]
> O Conchubhair of Corca Moruadh.[Corcumroe in Clare]
>
> Also associated with this line were O'Lochlainn of Burren in Co. Clare;
> Muinntear Fhlaithbhearthaigh (O Flaherty of Thomond), Siol bhFearghail (O
> Farrell), Mag Raghnaill [MacRannall], and Mac Eochadha of Leinster
(MacKeogh).
>
> Maybe by checking some supposedly "Cruithin" DNA you could find some
> difference in your Dal Riata or Scots modal line. Of course you'd have to
be very
> careful which names you tested or which DNA you used; most of these names
> are of multiple origins and found all over Ireland. I think I'd stick
with
> Maguinnes as the easiest to identify.

This thread: