GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-02 > 1140841784
From: "John McEwan" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Ken's Southern Irish cluster
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:29:44 +1300
It is interesting to note that R1bSTR44 is the second largest R1b group
for those that list Ireland as an origin (6%), and is also present at 7%
of samples from western Europe, but that its frequency is lower in
Scotland and England.
From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2006 11:46 a.m.
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ken's Southern Irish cluster
South Irish R1b variety is identified by marker values *off* the
R1b modal haplotype; South Irish R1b being
391 = 10; 385b = 15; 439 = 11; 442 = 13; 447 = 24; 456 = 15; C4 =
I don't call that "close" to the AMH because all markers are not
for such metrical purposes.
There is no necessary connection between this South Irish variety and a
software's "Cluster 44"; the two are established by different rules. I
picked a dozen haplotypes randomly from the list below and found 8
definately not of the South Irish variety and 4 being from "maybes to
maybes". Someone with more energy can perhaps extract from Andrew's
the sturdy members of the South Irish variety, and even better discover
what, if anything, all the listed haplotypes have in common which puts
in a "Cluster 44"? This is partly a rhetorical request, because I
know, but I am interested in what others might believe holds such a
From the pedigrees I found for the South Irish variety, and one already
proven S21+ (and not of "Cluster 44"), I predict that solidly South
R1b variety haplotypes will also be S21+, but I would not extend that
prediction necessarily to just any members of Andrew's "Cluster 44".
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew and Inge" <>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: [DNA] Ken's Southern Irish cluster
> After Ken's recent comment I went looking for his cluster in John
> phylogram, and after much playing around with ysearch, I believe I am
> correct to say that they are mixed in cluster 44. This is a big
> the Scots cluster (47) and not so far from WAMH, but unfortunately it
> also one where John has received very little SNP or other feedback, so
> don't know much about them.
> My impression is that like most of the near-WAMH R1b clusters, they
> probably a mixed bag and will turn out to have more than one origin.
> Ken's cluster is WITHIN this cluster 44.
> Here is a ysearch table for all the people in cluster 44. You'll
> have to cut and paste with some effort, but not as much as I made in
> it together!
> Best Regards
> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more.
> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more:
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