Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-03 > 1141583032

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Variances of Isles R1b Varieties
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2006 11:23:52 -0700

There seems lots of new excitement with attempts to identify objective varieties of R1b found in the British Isles with quasi-historical figures. This seems fine if the identification is simply that such and such clans had prolific members who fell within one or another R1b variety already well-established, but if the genetic founders of these varieties are considered to be these quasi-historic clan chiefs, then rather young ages for the varieties will be implied. That should probably show up in the variances of the populations.

I have looked at the SMGF populations for three robust varieties of R1b which have been identified with specific regions within the British Isles as well (through examination of the haplotype pedigrees). I nickname them

A. DYS390,391,392,385 = 25/11/14/11-13 North Irish R1b

B. DYS390,391,385 = 24/10/11-15 South Irish R1b

C. DYS390,391,YCA = 24/10/19-24 Scot R1b

Using SMGF, I hasten to add that when needed I used additional unique modals to identify and pull these populations from the database. Using 27 markers, I evaluated the variances of the database populations for these three varieties. Theory indicates the variances should be in ratio to the ages back to the effective founders of the populations. Here are the sum of 27 variances for each.

A. 4.59
B. 3.02
C. 5.20

As a comparison/calibration I used the same 27 markers to find the variances for the whole Atlantic R1b population in SMGF. Atlantic R1b Variance = 7.73

This suggests that the three robust varieties of R1b found in Ireland and Scotland had their foundings much earlier than the quasi-historic era. We must remember that every past human as well as ourselves was born into an already existing clustered haplotype structure established by earlier founders who existed in eras of more limited population and greater chances for genetic "bottlenecks". This is not to say that more recent prolific figures can not stack our databases, especially when we have so many in a quest to find ties to clans and quasi-historic figures.

I probably should have thrown in my Frisian R1b variety, but forgot. I'll add that another day.


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