Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-03 > 1142369077

Subject: RE: [DNA] IxI1b2 Haplogroup / I1c pre-Viking / Cruithne
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:44:37 -0800
In-Reply-To: <>

Along these lines, I recall "Galloway Gossip", written circa 1900, made a
couple of comments based upon his knowledge of the area's "thinking" at the

1. Large population of Cruithne came from Ulster to Wigtonshire,
Kirkcudbrightshire, & adjoining areas in pre-Roman times. Cruithne had some
association with the Gallgaels in Ulster, Galloway, & the Isles.

2. Author surmized that the early Picts of central & eastern Scotland had
Germanic origins among the peoples of NW & Baltic areas of Europe.

So, some of our DNA insight (without DNA testing) was held 200+ & far back
among the communities in question. DM

Don Milligan
3003 South 253rd Street
Kent, WA 98032
253 941-0514

>From: "Ron Lindsay" <>
>Subject: RE: [DNA] IxI1b2 Haplogroup / I1c pre-Viking / Cruithne
>Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 08:46:12 -0800
>Patrick & Ken,
>I have been following this topic with much interest and I believe it was
>John Lochlan who made the statement in question on March 13 at 9:03 PM (see
>an abbreviated version of Lochlan's note below).
>Ron Lindsay
>San Jose, CA
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [mailto:]
>Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 9:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [DNA] IxI1b2 Haplogroup / I1c pre-Viking
>See below a note on the I1c and I1b haplogroups and why they are so unique
>in Scotland:
>Trinity College, Dublin
>"... However at this time there were other groups of "proto - Celts"
>residing in Ireland and perhaps Shetland who carried a different Y-DNA
>signature, "I1b" / "I1c" which is considered to be a remanant of the
>neolithic people who arrived from the Middle East, bringing with them
>agricultural practices and different cultural traditions. This haplogroup
>has been reported among up to 20% of the Clan Chieftans of the Ulster and
>the Scottish Highlands - who claim to be of Pictish (and earlier Scythian)
>descent. According to other sources, this haplogroup, if found at all, may
>not exceed (overall) 1% ..."
>"... It would be an interesting development, given that the Picts had a
>decided Armenoid cast to their features, which would harmonize with a Near
>Eastern origin. Today, haplogroup "I1b" / "I1c" is found at high frequency
>among Greeks, Georgians, and Croatians (the original areas of "I" during
>ice age and before the mass migration north to Scandinavia) ..."
>SO - Have the Cruithin or Picts been unmasked and are they hiding behind
>I1b/I1c haplogroups in the British Isles?
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 6:35 AM
>Subject: Re: [DNA] IxI1b2 Haplogroup / I1c pre-Viking / Cruithne
>Patrick, I don't believe I wrote the lines in your message ascribed to me?
>Maybe there's another Ken, however?
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