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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1143928295


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] an unexpected haplogroup result
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 13:51:35 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <007201c655d2$482b05b0$0101a8c0@HighReaches.local>


First of all, have you even bothered to read this
archaeological study before leveling your criticisms
against it? Since the authors don't propose to
"reinterprete" anything in their study concerning
connections between current populations and those of
the past, I'm not sure what you are accusing them of
"wanting to be true." What strikes you as "incredibly
outlandish" in this particular study?

And they are certainly not arguing for a "deus ex
machina" explanation either. These are scientists.
They certainly don't buy into "Deus Ex Machina"
explanations for things.

There wasn't a "wholesale replacement," but neither
was there simply a cultural diffusion process. These
population movements out of the Middle East occurred
over time and originated from different source groups.
And the impact on Europe varied greatly from region
to region. If the region is the Balkans, Greece,
Cyprus, Crete and Italy, the movement come to
constitute nearly a wholesale replacement. Cyprus
was, in fact, settled entirely by Neolithic
agriculturalists. But by the time you reach the
fringes of Europe - Scandinavia and the British Isles-
the movement was probably more one of cultural
diffusion. Still, even at the fringes, the Neolithic
groups moved in, though at a much lower frequency. I
posted recently to the list about the study, "Tracing
the Phylogeography of Human Populations in Britain
Based on 4th-11th Century mtDNA Geotypes," by A.L.
Topf. Although again based on exploration of ancient
mtDNA evidence in Britain, the authors offer
explanations for the presence of Neolithic haplogroups
like J1b1 present in Britain and Scandinavia which
they suggest may date back to the Neolithic. I
thought this was a remarkable suggestion that no one
has yet commented on.

Ellen Coffman

--- Glen Todd <> wrote:

>
> > > The authors also levelled some rather humorous
> (and in
> > > my opinion, fairly valid) criticisms towards the
> field
> > > of genetic genealogy and its obsession with
> > > "interpreting the current gene pool as a legacy
> of
> > > past population migrations."
> >
> > Well, the current gene pool **IS** a legacy of
> past
> > population migrations. That's not debatable,
> unless you
> > define "population migration" to mean "wholesale
> > replacement" as opposed to addition. That may be
> what they
> > mean, of course.
>
> Or one of the various fanciful deus ex machina
> explanations where some force
> or power not in evidence simply bypassed all of the
> natural laws to create
> something entirely new that just _happened_ to
> greatly resemble what had
> previously existed but is not related to it at all.
> (Or all the apparent
> older evidence was just made up by this same force
> to confuse people.)
>
> To reiterate the above point, the current gene pool
> IS the legacy of past
> population migrations. It is, as I put it more
> poetically in another
> forum, the Book of the Blood, and it does not lie -
> unlike some other books
> that purport to tell contradictory stories. The
> criticism of
> "interpreting the current gene pool as a legacy of
> past population
> migrations" is in all probably another way of saying
> "the evidence does not
> support what I _WANT_ to be true, therefore the
> evidence must be wrong, or
> must have to be 're-interpreted' in some incredibly
> outlandish way to make
> it fit". I know that we've all seen this, both on
> this list and
> elsewhere.
>
> The 'wholesale replacement', as has been already
> more than adequately
> demonstrated, did not happen, but migrations
> unquestionably did happen.
> Following them is what this is all about.
>
> Glen
>
>
> ==============================
> Search Family and Local Histories for stories about
> your family and the
> areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the
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>
>



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