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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1143959036


From: "brian quinn" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] an unexpected haplogroup result and
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 16:23:56 +1000
In-Reply-To: <20060401221142.25274.qmail@web52115.mail.yahoo.com>


Hi, Ellen, I thought I would have a closer look at the actual map of the
Last Glacial Maximum (hope tthat's right)Here's the text that goes with the
maps http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/nercEUROPE.html



You know there is a lot of huey written about the so called refuges in
Iberia, Balkans and Anatolia. If you look at the above map showing the
vegetation 22,000 to 14,000 years ago you can see that the Ice Caps covered
bits of north Britain and Scandanavia. But you could walk across the tundra
from Iberia to S Ireland and S England. It was a polar desert as where the
Penguins can overwinter in the Antarctic. However as is often the case
fishing can be very good and seals abundant. The Bison would have migrated
up and down winter to summer. I think the refuges they talk about are just
stuff like Oak trees. The willow was probably still out there along with the
alder. http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/NEW_MAPS/europe1.gif


From above web site " It is interesting to note, however, that frost was not
severe enough to wipe out relict populations of the endemic Mediterranean
date palm, Phoenix theophrasti, from the warmest parts of Crete and the SE
Aegean (Rackham, in press)"

I suspect that you could also walk across to Gibraltar from North Africa and
wouldn't have needed much of a boat to get to a lot of Islands. Also as evap
was very low maybe there was a skim of fresh water on top of the hypersaline
Mediterranean. The Black Sea was a freshwater lake, full of fish and
surrounded by fishing folk. Even some woodlands to the north of Anatolia so
I suspect woodlands into what is now the Black Sea. So the gene flows didn't
have to divert round Black Sea they would walk which ever way took their
fancy.

13000 years ago it was quite toastey. There was steppe across whole of
Ireland. You could walk in a straight line from Belfast to Stockholm, few
portages I'm sure. You will notice that Iberia is still Steppe. Basically
grassy but the herds would have loved it.


12000- 11,000 http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/NEW_MAPS/europe3.gif

Open woodland nearly everywhere and ideal for the spread of the Emmer wheat(
I believe there is a west european varity?

Then we get a nasty Heinrich event(I think) when Ice sheets in Scotland
again

http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/NEW_MAPS/europe4.gif

9-8000 same tempos as today so could grow wheat again etc

7-5000 warmer than today- so wheat way north

Gets colder then 6000 years ago the Black Sea is flooded from the
Mediterranean.

7-5000 farming starts
2,600 years ago the bogs grew and covered a lot of good farm land. There
still there I think. 700-200 years ago quite cold.

I think the people were in Europe all along in small groups of course, the
refuge theory is wrong.

If there was any high pop refuge it was in those 3 bits of woodland you can
see in http://www.esd.ornl.gov/projects/qen/eur(22-.gif but the map doesn't
show where they may also have been along the Medit Basin and in the Black
Sea.

And when the Black Sea flooded in the cool phase maybe all the northern
farmers were wiped out and had to wait until they were able to buy fresh
seed form the south a few thousand years later. Who knows?

quinny

-----Original Message-----
From: ellen Levy [mailto:]
Sent: Sunday, 2 April 2006 8:12 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [DNA] an unexpected haplogroup result

Oh, yes, and there was an interesting discussion
earlier posing the question as to whether these
agriculturalist moved slowly or saw the next hill and
packed up and relocated. While there was probably
some migrations out of the Middle East that occured
fairly quickly (for example, the settlement of
Cyprus), it appears that the agriculturalists overall
moved slow. Real slow. The Neolithic revolution hit
Cyprus and parts of Greece about 8000 BC. It takes
another 5000 years before the same technology appears
in places like British Isles.

Ellen Coffman



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