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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1145505704


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:01:44 -0600
References: <005301c66421$ab730ca0$6500000a@athlon64>


I did a message to the list on the 464 in I1a issue a week or two before.
For the continental Germanic-speaking countries 464d = 16 was twice the
amount of 464d = 15. For all the surrounding continental countries, the
4d4d = 15 was twice the 464d = 16. For England, interestingly, the ratio of
16 to 15 at 464d was about equal.

You can get DYS462 from DNA-Fingerprint. It is really cheap if you have
tested there before. Contact Anne or Bonnie of the list for participation
in the group purchase.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "rjhaskins" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] Further I1a tests?


> Ken,
>
> Thanks for the reply. How are they distributed differently in Europe
> today?
>
> After reading your comments, I am motivated to test for DYS462. What is a
> good route for testing this marker? Was it mentioned previously that
> there
> is group discount rate?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bob Haskins
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:09 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
>
> 464 = 12-14-15-16 is much more dominant for DYS462 = 13 I1a, while in the
> DYS462 = 12 I1a population 12-14-15-15 is of comparable presence.
>
> For ultraNorse I1a with DYS462 = 13, there is hardly any 464 =
> 12-14-15-15;
> it's almost all 12-14-15-16 or 11-14-14-16
>
>
> I believe your 12-14-16-16 is a mutation from 12-14-15-16
>
>
> Why? Because your haplotype fits the I1a-AS2 variety of I1a. See the
> modal
>
> haplotypes spreadsheet at www.northwestanalysis.net
>
> But I see evidence that DYS462 = 12, AngloSaxon I1a may have two main deep
> parts --- that which originally had 12-14-15-15 and that which had
> 12-14-15-16
>
> They seem to be differently distributed in Europe today.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rjhaskins" <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:48 PM
> Subject: RE: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
>
>
>> Ken,
>>
>> What are the hints you are seeing in the relationship between DYS462=12
>> and
>> values at DYS464? Any thoughts about the 12,14,16,16 values at DYS464.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bob Haskins
>> Ysearch Id: 5ET8U
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:09 AM
>> To:
>> Subject: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
>>
>> You even have DYS462 = 13, giving you all in all a pretty safe Norse I1a.
>> There are additional STR markers now available from DNA-Fingerprint,
>> Ethnoancestry, and FTDNA. Some markers are available from more than one
>> place. Some are not. Some "new" markers offered by one place have long
>> been available from other testing companies. So one should do a little
>> research before deciding whose new markers to get.
>>
>> You having a rather well-identified variety within I1a probably won't
>> directly benefit from further sub-division of I1a with new markers, you
>> getting such new marker will help establish a bench-line for Norse I1a;
>> perhaps new markers will also reinforce the division of your variety from
>> AngloSaxon I1a or from ultraNorse I1a?
>>
>> The population which really needs some new markers which would divide it
>> into parts is the DYS462 = 12 AngloSaxon I1a. This type of I1a dominates
>> the haplogroup's presence everywhere south of the Baltic and North Seas
>> as
>> well as most of England where the Anglo-Saxons settled. It even is
>> strong
>> up into Denmark and southern Sweden. There are hints from DYS464 that it
>> consists of two components. But it would really help if we find one or
>> more
>>
>> of the new STR markers break this major part of I1a into clearly distinct
>> parts. I think this is the key to learning more about the flow of
>> peoples
>> in the regions of Europe centered on present-day Germany and may help us
>> tell if there was a branch of I1a that got to the British Isles in
>> pre-Roman
>>
>> times?
>>
>> Incidently, at the moment you have no more SNPs worth testing. My I1a2
>> (M21+) and I1a3 (M72+) samples, kindly given to me by one of the major
>> university labs involved in this hobby/pursuit, and which have never been
>> reconfirmed with additional members, turn out to be both DYS462 = 12.
>> This
>> indicates that these subclades split from the AngloSaxon part of I1a, not
>> the Norse part. And these two SNPs still remain singletons after SNP
>> tests
>> on more than 100 haplotypes searching for more. M227+, I1a1, also seem
>> to
>> have branched off from DYS462 = 12 I1a
>>
>> See Ymatch entries 6120.70 and 6121.70
>>
>> Ken
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Roxanne Pendleton" <>
>> To: <>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:10 AM
>> Subject: RE: [DNA] Come on, I1a Haplotypes
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe I am out of things to test. My dad is a 2YEUW at Y search and
>>> is
>>
>>> 30+ 40+ with 385 a& b each being 14 so no high low situation. If you see
>>> something else to test I'm in. Roxanne
>>>
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