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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1145795052


From: Terry Todd <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:24:12 -0500
References: <005001c6641c$8c3d7e60$6500000a@athlon64> <000801c6641f$522c3330$bec79045@Ken1> <20060423071310.A20853@badger.tltodd.com>
In-Reply-To: <20060423071310.A20853@badger.tltodd.com>; from tlt@badger.tltodd.com on Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 07:13:10AM -0500


Ken,

It's your web page at: http://www.northwestanalysis.net/Iweb3.jpg

Terry Todd


On Sun, Apr 23, 2006 at 07:13:10AM -0500, Terry Todd wrote:
>
>
> Ken,
>
> Our modal pattern for my line has DYS464 as 12-14-15-16 and DYS462=13
> I see at www.northwestanalysis.net that you show DYS463 as 13 also.
> Is that a typo? Our DYS463 is 19 for all participants in our line.
>
> Thanks,
> Terry Todd
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 19, 2006 at 08:08:31PM -0600, Ken Nordtvedt wrote:
> > 464 = 12-14-15-16 is much more dominant for DYS462 = 13 I1a, while in the
> > DYS462 = 12 I1a population 12-14-15-15 is of comparable presence.
> >
> > For ultraNorse I1a with DYS462 = 13, there is hardly any 464 = 12-14-15-15;
> > it's almost all 12-14-15-16 or 11-14-14-16
> >
> >
> > I believe your 12-14-16-16 is a mutation from 12-14-15-16
> >
> >
> > Why? Because your haplotype fits the I1a-AS2 variety of I1a. See the modal
> > haplotypes spreadsheet at www.northwestanalysis.net
> >
> > But I see evidence that DYS462 = 12, AngloSaxon I1a may have two main deep
> > parts --- that which originally had 12-14-15-15 and that which had
> > 12-14-15-16
> >
> > They seem to be differently distributed in Europe today.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rjhaskins" <>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:48 PM
> > Subject: RE: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
> >
> >
> > > Ken,
> > >
> > > What are the hints you are seeing in the relationship between DYS462=12
> > > and
> > > values at DYS464? Any thoughts about the 12,14,16,16 values at DYS464.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Bob Haskins
> > > Ysearch Id: 5ET8U
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:09 AM
> > > To:
> > > Subject: [DNA] Further I1a tests?
> > >
> > > You even have DYS462 = 13, giving you all in all a pretty safe Norse I1a.
> > > There are additional STR markers now available from DNA-Fingerprint,
> > > Ethnoancestry, and FTDNA. Some markers are available from more than one
> > > place. Some are not. Some "new" markers offered by one place have long
> > > been available from other testing companies. So one should do a little
> > > research before deciding whose new markers to get.
> > >
> > > You having a rather well-identified variety within I1a probably won't
> > > directly benefit from further sub-division of I1a with new markers, you
> > > getting such new marker will help establish a bench-line for Norse I1a;
> > > perhaps new markers will also reinforce the division of your variety from
> > > AngloSaxon I1a or from ultraNorse I1a?
> > >
> > > The population which really needs some new markers which would divide it
> > > into parts is the DYS462 = 12 AngloSaxon I1a. This type of I1a dominates
> > > the haplogroup's presence everywhere south of the Baltic and North Seas as
> > > well as most of England where the Anglo-Saxons settled. It even is strong
> > > up into Denmark and southern Sweden. There are hints from DYS464 that it
> > > consists of two components. But it would really help if we find one or
> > > more
> > >
> > > of the new STR markers break this major part of I1a into clearly distinct
> > > parts. I think this is the key to learning more about the flow of peoples
> > > in the regions of Europe centered on present-day Germany and may help us
> > > tell if there was a branch of I1a that got to the British Isles in
> > > pre-Roman
> > >
> > > times?
> > >
> > > Incidently, at the moment you have no more SNPs worth testing. My I1a2
> > > (M21+) and I1a3 (M72+) samples, kindly given to me by one of the major
> > > university labs involved in this hobby/pursuit, and which have never been
> > > reconfirmed with additional members, turn out to be both DYS462 = 12.
> > > This
> > > indicates that these subclades split from the AngloSaxon part of I1a, not
> > > the Norse part. And these two SNPs still remain singletons after SNP
> > > tests
> > > on more than 100 haplotypes searching for more. M227+, I1a1, also seem to
> > > have branched off from DYS462 = 12 I1a
> > >
> > > See Ymatch entries 6120.70 and 6121.70
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Roxanne Pendleton" <>
> > > To: <>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:10 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [DNA] Come on, I1a Haplotypes
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I believe I am out of things to test. My dad is a 2YEUW at Y search and
> > >> is
> > >
> > >> 30+ 40+ with 385 a& b each being 14 so no high low situation. If you see
> > >> something else to test I'm in. Roxanne
> > >>
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