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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-04 > 1146289528


From: "rlivingston1488" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Modals for R1b Varieties
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 22:45:28 -0700
References: <000701c66af0$9edc2280$bec79045@Ken1>


Hi Ken,
Odd that you should be asking this question at this time - it has been
bothering me since I got up this morning. I am one of those oddball
"ubiquitous" YCA = 19, 22 people. I have been keeping track of people who
fit this profile and who have posted their results on Y-search. The
surnames that could be Scottish or Irish include Livingstone, Wilson,
Brewer, Adams, Blair, McMillan, McKenzie, Devitt, Hunt, and Sinclair. The
latter is actually a fairly close match to me, but he is adopted, so the
surname has no bearing on his origins. Scottish-sounding surnames from
Sorenson include McGee, McCoy, Martin, Clark, White, and Livingstone. It
should be noted that McGee and McCoy are both derived from "MacAedh", but
one is a Scottish pronunciation and one is an Irish pronunciation.
The scary part of this is the genetic distance between myself and the
other Livingstone who was tested by Sorenson. We share common values for
DYS390, 391, and YCAii (24,10,19-22). We have a genetic distance of 6 out
of the 28 markers commonly tested. If we are extremely liberal with the MCRA
calculations, there is 50% chance our common ancestor lived no longer than
1800 years ago. If we are more conservative, there is a 95% chance our
common ancestor lived no longer than 3200 years ago. Given that YCAii =
19,22 is such a rare value, you really have to question the odds of two
Livingstones with a common ancestor maintaining their family identities over
that period of time.
The Livingstone's old Gaelic name was MacDonnsliebhe, and our only solid
history is that we were hereditary keepers of an ancient religious relic
called the Bachuil of St. Moluag. Moluag was an Irishman who established
the Abbey of Lismore on the Isle of Lismore, Argyll in about 563 AD. We
have proof that we have held this relic (a walking stick or talisman- like
rod of black hawthorn) since at least the 14th century, but we have no solid
history as a family before that time. It is presumed that we must have been
a family of high rank - attached to a royal line - to merit such standing,
but again, we have no good evidence of this.
Some historians have conjectured that we descend from an ancient line of
Druids, and that when Moluag brought Christianity to the Isle of Lismore,
they deferred to him with the understanding that they would still hold some
power - the Bachuil being a symbol of that power. It is not known if
Moluag's abbey was built upon land held and granted by the Dal Riata kings
or on land held and granted by the Pict kings. That would be important in
determining the identity of my particular haplogroup "variety", if there
really is such a distinction.
It would not surprise me to eventually find out that the "Donnsleibhe"
from whom we get our name is one identified as an ancestor to the Lamonts of
Cowal. In the MS of 1450, the father of Donnsliebhe is Aedh Allain (ie
MacAedh, MacCoy, MacGee?), and one of Aedh's ancestors is "Martin Donn" or
"Martin the brown-haired" (ie Martin or MacMartin such as that found in the
Sorenson Database). These men appear to have originated in the area of
Lochaber and Badenoch in the southern part of Morayshire. I think Mark
MacDonald has suggested that the McMillans may have come from Moray. As far
as a link to the continent goes, I'm as stumped as anyone else.
My y-search identity is q5br3. The Livingstone from Sorenson is one of
the three listed in the database from Lanark.

Rob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:21 AM
Subject: [DNA] Modals for R1b Varieties


> I have added a spreadsheet to my website www.northwestanalysis.net for the
extended modal haplotypes of R1b varieties I have identified primarily from
SMGF database (Ysearch for DYS464)
>
> There is one small variety, R1b-Ub, which shows an unusual pedigree
distribution in my view. It is found in Iberia, British Isles, as well as
Germany, Denmark, Sweden --- hence the "Ub" for ubiquitous, not Uzbekistan.
It has modal 24,10,19-22 at DYS390,391,YCA, and I believe this root form has
been mentioned from time to time on the list, particularly by the Scots and
Irish on the list. If anyone has an idea what "peoples" it represents,
chime in.
>
> Note: I consider a "variety" as something more than a cluster of
genealogical cousins. A variety is the descendant population from a founder
with a unique haplotype and who existed thousands of years ago. The modal
haplotype is a good candidate for the founder's haplotype. One's "distance"
from this modal haplotype, or liklihood to be among the descendants of the
founder, should not be determined by democratically adding up steps of
difference at all markers. It is much more important to match on most of
the key, slow-mutating markers which define the variety.
>
> Some of the extended modal haplotypes for the varieties from more easterly
parts of Europe are incomplete; the data is rather lean.
>
> Ken
>
>
> ==============================
> Jumpstart your genealogy with OneWorldTree. Search not only for
> ancestors, but entire generations. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13972/rd.ashx
>
>

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