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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Modals for R1b Varieties
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:05:57 -0600
References: <20060429054207.ZRDK847.omta01ps.mx.bigpond.com@DINOSAUR>


What "likely mutation"? Varieties are founded by an individual who has
whatever haplotype state he finds himself with given his ancestral line (and
its mutations from an earlier founder (read prolific line)) in the parental
population he came from. The founder of this "Saxon" variety, if that is
what it is, would have existed prior to the movement of Saxons to England.
I don't know what you are struggling with to explain Saxon yhaplotypes in
England, again if that's what they are. From the amount of I1a they and
other tribes brought to England around 450 A.D. there had to be a comparable
amount of R1b brought, because they are and were mixed (I1a, R1b, I1c...)
back on the continent.

Ken




----- Original Message -----
From: "brian quinn" <>
To: <>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:42 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] Modals for R1b Varieties


> Ken, But you have got to also be able to say that the likely mutation was
> 1700 years ago, or 1000. Even then it may have been in Germany.
>
> Here are some candidates for the "Saxon" mob.
>
>
> The Kings German Legion were along the south coast 200 years ago.
>
>
> "In 1804 the infantry were sent to Bexhill, a small farming village
> slightly
> inland from the Sussex coast, at the traditionally vulnerable spot between
> Eastbourne and Hastings where there were no cliffs and where the coast
> made
> an ideal landing spot for an invasion. Eventually there were to be as many
> as 5,000 German soldiers based in Bexhill, in a village of between 500 and
> 1,000 people. The barracks which was built was bigger than the village
> itself and extended for a vast area just over the top of the hill out of
> sight of the sea.
> They arrived at many British ports but mainly were brought by the Royal
> Navy
> through Portsmouth. Initially the soldiers were billeted around
> Portsmouth,
> but as various units of the King's German Legion developed - hussars,
> dragoons, infantry, artillery - they were sent to be based at strategic
> sites along the south coast. One was at Weymouth in Dorset.
>
> In Bexhill itself, after an initial wariness, a close bond developed with
> the villagers. The German officers made a hit socially, many German
> soldiers
> married or had relationships with Bexhill girls - many of whom were left
> as
> widows. Some officers returned to Bexhill, after Waterloo was over. As a
> force, the King's German Legion left Bexhill in 1814 to fight at Waterloo
> and never returned. The barracks were taken down a few years later and
> Bexhill returned to being a small village. Pension payments were made for
> many years; the last one sent to Germany was in 1880."
>
> Maybe 25 women married and got German surnames maybe 25 just got the
> babies.
> That could be 12 boys maybe half got dad's name anyway because it was very
> illegal not. So maybe 6 concealed they would have about 8 generations
> since
> then maybe 200 male descendants alive today. Hmm of which I would say on
> average about 1 of them by now would have got a ydna test. Hmm so my
> theory
> is rubbish ah well.
>
> I dunno 10 years is a long time away from home. 16 tests might mean 100
> unacknowledged regimental kinder by 1814.
>
>
> Those widows would have been sought after if only for the widow pensions,
> remarrying would have concealed the german fathers. By the way you can
> look
> up the pensions- they were called "Chelsea Pensioners". Anyone in the
> Irish
> Army got Kilmainham Pensions.
>
> From
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/education/beyond/factsheets/makhist/makhist9_prog5b.sht
> ml
>
> quinny
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Nordtvedt [mailto:]
> Sent: Saturday, 29 April 2006 11:45 AM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Modals for R1b Varieties
>
> With just 25 FTDNA markers it seems you only confirm the DYS385 repeats
> which deviate from Atlantic R1b (plus the 23 at DYS390)? That is not a
> very
> strong confirmation. R1b-F2 is one of the varieties of the Frisian
> (DYS390,391 = 23/11) form of R1b. I'll look up the pedigree locations and
> check the DYS464 from my notes.
>
> Just checked pedigrees from SMGF for the R1b-F2. Very interesting. No
> Scots, no Irish, no Scandinavians, all English and some Germans. Saxons?
> I
>
> checked the locations of all these English. It seems to exclude Anglia,
> Yorkshire and places of Dane immigration.
>
> Staffordshire
> Leicester
> Kent 2
> Somerset 2
> Sussex
> Lancashire
> Wiltshire 3
> Cornwal
> Oxford
> Middlesex 3
>
> I'll now check the locations of the German pedigrees and also Ysearch.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <>
> To: <>
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 4:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Modals for R1b Varieties
>
>
>>
>> Ken, what is R1b-F2? It fits my family's ydna pattern except at 464
>> it's
>> 15,15,16,17
>>
>> Of course we've only tested 25 markers.
>>
>> Amy McWhirter Hutton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ==============================
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>> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ==============================
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>
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>
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>



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