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From: "PeterLangley" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haemochromatosis and R1b was TMRCA interpretation, was
Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 21:54:04 +0100
References: <001a01c66d87$12169440$bec79045@Ken1> <20060502052833.YJPP17345.omta04ps.mx.bigpond.com@DINOSAUR> <246baaff0605021239l7df40782of7db51389503e92a@mail.gmail.com>


I have also inherited the genes for haemochromatosis from both my parents.
Although I live in Ireland, I don't believe more than 15 per cent of my
ancestors 2,000 years ago were Irish.

I am R1b1 and come closest to the R1b-sc on Ken's latest spread sheet.

With haemochromatosis being also found in small quantities in Scandinavia
and the Continent, I believe it is a lot older than some people believe.
When I was diagnosed I was told that although it was known as the Celtic
Curse, the gene was in fact pre-celtic. (at this point I am liable to get on
my hobby-horse and claim that there was no Celtic invasion 3,000 years ago,
but that the Celts were always here).

To my mind the gene arrived with the earliest R1b settlers in these islands,
who to my mind were Celts (Irish, Scots, Welsh, Ancient Britons etc.)

It is highly likely to have helped early man survive which is how it
propagated so easily, it's bearers having a greater immunity to certain
diseases and afflictions, but it also had the adverse effect of causing
liver, kidney and heart problems leading to early death. Maybe that is why
the majority of my male Langley ancestors failed to reach the age of 50 and
I am the lucky one to have had it help me through early life, but for it to
be diagnosed in time before serious trouble arose.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Havelock Vetinari" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 8:39 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haemochromatosis and R1b was TMRCA interpretation, was


> Brian Quinn:
>
> Quote:"One wonders if it is survival trait of the Paleolithic R1b"
>
> I think that hemochromatosis is less than 2,000 years old so it would
> not be Paleolithic in origin.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul D.
>
>
> On 5/2/06, brian quinn <> wrote:
>> It would be fun to do an AMOVA on the three Irish/Scot/Brit R1b sub
>> populations to see what the phi statistic is between them, and then check
>> if
>> the surnames actually go with the haplotypes.
>>
>> Although the study below used surnames to determine ethnicity between
>> German
>> Mixed and Slavic (seemed to work G+M versus Slavic) there were very few
>> surnames that actually shared the same haplotype.
>> See neat paper checking German and Slavic and mixed G+S surnames against
>> haplotypes http://www.biotype.de/files/Immel_EJHG_06.pdf
>>
>>
>> If Irish and other surnames have a particular haplotype founder- then
>> they
>> will be sharing a pool of dna. Then there must be fitness causes for why
>> that name is now plentiful or not.
>>
>>
>> I wonder if thalassemia/sickle cell related to malarial geography would
>> thus
>> show a y hap or mtdna link indirectly.
>>
>>
>> About one fifth of Irish are carriers of Haemochromatosis a recessive
>> disorder.
>>
>> "One theory by American researchers suggests that thousands of years ago,
>> genes mutated to over-absorb iron from what was then a very poor diet.
>> This,
>> they claim, was nature's way of over-compensating."
>> http://www.njaoh.com/notices/hemochro.pdf
>>
>> Shared to a lesser extent with Anglos and Nordics. One wonders if it is
>> survival trait of the Paleolithic R1b, that is indirectly linked to the
>> haplotype though and to many an Irish type surname through that poor
>> distant
>> starved ancestor(well not as starved as the one without the mutation).
>> Course the R1b stayed the same just that the MRCA was the one with the
>> mutation for Haemochromatosis and all the other now missing R1b sub
>> groups
>> died out.
>>
>> If one fifth carry the gene doesn't that tell you something about its
>> antiquity?
>>
>> Wonder if the three sub pops of R1a have Haemochromatosis equally?
>>
>> quinny
>
>
> ==============================
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