GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-05 > 1146942408
From: "Lowe DNA" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] R1b page updated with Historic Ethnic Geolocation
Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 14:06:51 -0500
Your research results are very welcomed. Especially interesting were items
1-4 below where you
have hypothesized a connection between the early ethnic and geographic
Getting deep SNP results from a company with historic ethnic and geographic
location like you
have provided below will really help the lay genealogical community push
forward with their
ancient research which for-to-now has been concentrated to the last 1000
years or so solely with
Hope that your health problems abate.
From: David Faux [mailto:]
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 1:10 PM
Subject: [DNA] R1b page updated and Geolocation
To compliment Dr. McEwan's excellent efforts to portray all known facts
about the range of R1b1c downstream SNPs, I thought it might be helpful to
provide summary data from our company database. I have had chronic health
problems and chronic family matters to deal with for some time now and
appologize for any delays in replying to questions.
Some caveats. First the data differs dramatically depending on region of
Europe. Most of our data is from those whose ancestry is from Britain,
Ireland or Germany. Our research data (from samples already published in
the academic literature is fascinating and will at some point be made
Here are the percentages of each Y-SNP for those customers who tested
M269+. Clearly there are some SNPs in the subclade testing that have failed
to show up (and as well have not been seen more than once in the academic
literature), but our customer data is skewed with little representation from
for example Eastern Europe (although it is rare there in relation to the
west of Europe):
R1b1c* (no subclade SNP tested positive) - 57%
R1b1c6 (SRY2627; M167) - 2%
R1b1c7 (M222) - 7%
R1b1c9 (S21+) - 25%
R1b1c10 (S28+) - 13%
1) R1b1c* is the aboriginal M269 population. Over time we will find more
SNPs to parse this out. At present in Britain and Ireland for example it
likely points to Q-Celt and part of the P-Celt population.
2) R1b1c6 arose in Southern Spain and radiated north to Southern England
3) R1b1c7 is doubtless a recent mutation on M269 Y-chromosomes and is
confined to those whose ancestry is traced to Northwest Ireland (although it
may occur elsewhere as a result of migration, or if Spain or France perahps
because the first M222 emerged there).
4) R1b1c9 is the classic Germanic marker (predominating in Friesland and
Norway). It has however been observed in a Celtic region of Britain and
doubtless reflects the migration of the Belgae peoples whose territory
included part of Friesland. Generally, however, if in England this would
reflect a Northern German or Scadinavian ancestry. It has not been seen in
Southern Germany to date. If northern Wales then Belgae (a mixed Celtic -
Germanic group that migrated to Britain just prior to the Roman era).
5) R1b1c10 is a classic Celtic Hallstadt - La Tane marker. It is
specifically found in Celtic populations that emerged from the Thraco -
Cimmerian migration (circa 700 BC) to Switzerland, the Balkans and Eastern
Europe to the Jutland Penninsula where the Celtic Cimbri peoples (ancestors
to part of the Belgae of France and Belgium) called home from about 500 BC.
In England it will be found only along the East coastal areas (Danelaw) via
Danish Viking migrations from Himmerland (Limfjord in Denmark). If from
Kent it may mean Jutish. If from SE Norway or Southern Sweden a "spill
over" from Skagen to Mariager Fjord in the northern part of the Jutland
Penninsula. If from France then Belgae whose territory included the English
Channel south to below Paris and with links to the Helvetia in Switzerland.
If from Northern Wales then Belgae forced to move north with the advance of
the Romans or Saxons.
The above is what is suggested by the data to date. It is not meant to be
comprehensive. It is a working hypothesis and represents the views of
myself not necessarily those of Dr. Wilson or Ethnoancestry.
Dr. David K.W. Faux
Ethnoancestry USA, Inc.
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