GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-05 > 1146974263


From: ellen Levy <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] R1b page updated
Date: Sat, 6 May 2006 20:57:43 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <000001c67167$19460ff0$4001a8c0@BigMem2>


John:

My point has been that R1b1c* is predominant today in
these population. I don't think the evidence is there
to support the contention that it was predominant in
the same region in the prehistoric past, or that it
was even present post-LGM (ie, pre-Neolithic) in this
same region. I not saying it was not there, only that
there is no evidence that it was either. Given the
ancient mtDNA evidence, it would appear that quite a
bit has changed genetically between prehistoric (even
late Bronze Age) and modern European populations, so
one should probably not assume that the Y haplogroups
have not suffered the same fate.

We discussed SRY2627 (R1b1c6) just a few weeks ago on
the list. Discussion of the origin and age of this
clade appears in McEvoy's "The Longue Duree" article.
He dates it to between 2000-3000 years ago. I posted
a question as to whether anyone had found evidence of
the presence sub-clade in the British Isles which
would support a more recent migration from Spain into
the British Isles.

Ellen Coffman


--- John McEwan <> wrote:

> Dear Ellen
>
> You said
> .....
> Mallory's book is an
> indispensible resource for linguistic/archaeological
> information on Indo-Europeans.
> .....
>
> I agree
>
> ......
> I'd further like to
> understand why you have deemed it "aboriginal" (to
> Europe? The British Isles?)
> ......
>
> I agree with David that it is "aboriginal" because
> by definition R1b1c*
> must be older, and it seems to be concentrated on
> the Alantic seaboard
> Britain and Ireland where it is predominant based on
> the origins of the
> people that have been tested.
>
> .....
> R1b1c6 apparently arose fairly recently in Spain
> (about 2500 years ago). Have you been finding some
> of
> this in England and Ireland? That would be
> interesting, indicating a more recent migration
> pattern from the continent into the British Isles.
> ....
>
> I think R1b1c6 has to be older than your estimate
> based on its diversity
> relative to R1b1c IF you accept that R1b1c was
> present during the LGM.
>
> Cheers
>
> John McEwan
>
>
>
>
> ==============================
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>


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