Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-05 > 1147069461

From: "brian quinn" <>
Subject: Helena disease farming history Part 2
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 16:24:21 +1000
In-Reply-To: <>

Just reading the paper Anne Turner referred us to
df?erFrom=3268457005694479610Guest The Molecular Dissection of mtDNA
Haplogroup H Confirms That the
Franco-Cantabrian Glacial Refuge Was a Major Source for the European
Gene Pool
Alessandro Achilli,et al

It is a study looking at H, Helena 1 and Helena 3, MtDna. A proportion of
these ladies carry H63D mutation form of Hemachromatosis.

Helena 3 is correlated with A1555G mutation deafness. But as is in other
areas of the world must have multiple origins perhaps.

In the discussion below it is suggested that C28Y mutation hemachromatosis
is associated with the later "lady" farmers with a mix of Mtdna coming from
the east. See maps of C28Y and at least in central Europe it more or less
follows the thinning of H, H1 and H3 in the same area. See

H=18,400 years ago
H1=10-12,000 years ago
H3=10-11,000 years ago

(In contrast to Kivisild H1: 7,000
H is 9000 +- 1000)

See maps in Achilli,et al For H1 and H3, between the Black Sea and Scotland
there is a valley, a hole, a saddle, an absence in the data. Don't know how
to put it. For H itself this thinning goes down to Southern France- but a
peak for H3. There is a pit in about Poland/Belarus(close to where H3 is at
a little peak).

This thinning is remarkably also the demarcation line of emmer wheat and
barley growing by 5,000 BCE. See for unattributed map

Here's a possible story.

Helena set off first, heading north over the grassy steppe, fording broiling
ice swollen cascades. Maybe before 14,000 before present (bp)

Her stay-at-home grand-daughters had a few muts. Helena 1 and 3 set off
maybe bit later.

Then some Great grandchildren Helenas- and newly acquired milking goats,
Emmer Wheat and Barley, together with their new and much more numerous
cronies U K J T swarmed across from the east splitting the Granny Helena and
her great grandchildren H1 and H2 clan in two in Europe and swamping them in
North Africa
By dates of grains of wheat and barley this happens about 5,000 BCE in
Central Europe.

By 3,800 BCE they're ploughing at Stonehenge and by 2,500 BCE in Oslo.

This sounds like the spread of the Copper Age 4.500-2000 BCE. Society gets
organised. When you grow barley you need fences. Remember those movies about
Texas and the sod farmers versus the graziers.

The Ceide Fields in Co Mayo have stone walls around them. A plough was found
deep under the peat. Dated to 3,000 BCE. Just before the climate temp
dropped about 2 degrees and Ireland began to be covered with cold bogs
drowning the lowland forests and farms.

It looks like as the ladies set off from the east they went through Hungary
and they either picked up a lot of ladies with the C28Y mutation or that is
where the mutation occurred on the slow trek across Europe, or where the
trek started.

These farmers moved at the speed at which they can claim territory for
farming. They need less area than the hunters but they need it permanently.
They squat on the permanent water and starve out the hunter gatherers
especially when the hunter gatherers hunt the tethered goats, then war
starts. They eventually cluster and have semi- permanent villages.

Looks like the farms were in place maybe 2,550 BCE as Oslo was in place. The
climate changed, temps dropped the Ceide fields were covered in peat bog
which grew to 8 metres of peat, sometime 3,000 BCE onwards. I think this is
when the Terpen and Wierden of Friesia Netherlands Germany Denmark started
and went on till Roman times.

Pliny describes the condition of the Upper and Lower Chauci- the ancestral
Friesians: " Here a wretched race is found, inhabiting either the more
elevated spots of land or else eminences artificially constructed, and of a
height to which they know by experience that the highest tides will never

Also the Lake Dwellers. So everything goes a bit backwards for a very long
time. In Ireland around Lough Neagh the crannogs were used very late into
medieval times.

This wetter period would perhaps be the time when famine and conflict would
be widespread. Sometime after roughly 2,000 BCE on top of the
Neolithic/Copper Age farming ladies pattern, we start to get the Bronze Age.
Weapons become more important than ploughs and fish nets. The socially
homogenous burials of the Neolithic are replaced with some burials of the
posher sort and with rich burial goods.

Stonehenge is an example of a sacred site that was improved around 2,000 bce

The Amesbury Archer was a Beaker Person, more likely a copper smith. He
seems to have been on a mission from Central Europe, maybe to help make the
copper hammers etc to shape the stones? But maybe he shows the entry of
stratified society into Neolithic Britain. Shame there is no dna results.
His is the first burial in England with gold objects and shows his high

I suspect he is Proto Indo European speaking and probably had words for King
which the Neolithics wouldn't have had.

(Just thought I would mention this) Wonder if the Amesbury Archer was Abarus
in the

"Diodorus Siculus first introduced us to the Hyperboreans when he described
the voyage of Pytheas of Massilia, who circumnavigated Britain circa 300
BCE. When Siculus wrote, circa 100 BCE, he referred to these as myths
written down by Hecatus, who wrote circa 500 BCE. These 'myths' show a long
history of Aegean peoples with the Hyperboreans. "The Hyperboreans also
have a language, we are informed, which is peculiar to them, and are most
friendly disposed towards teh Greeks, and especially towards the Athenians
and the Delians, who have inherited this goodwill from most ancient times.
The myth also relates that certain Greeks visited the Hyperboreans and left
behind them costly votive offerings bearing inscriptions in Greek letters.
And in the same way Abaris, a Hyperborean, came to Greece in ancient times
and renewed the goodwill and kinship of his people to the Delians."

A connection between the Hyperboreans and the Minoans was long forgotten,
if there ever was one, but the connection between the island of Delos and
the island of Britain was remembered. Delos would have been part of the
Minoan Empire, whether a colony or a partner is unknown. This connection
also leads to a connection with the cult of Apollo; the god of the sun who
was sometimes called Hyperborean Apollo."

However maybe the legends of who built Stonehenge and the link with Sun god
misremembered and really Abarus came from Central Europe via a Massilian

Which neatly meets
"The Wessex culture is a name given to the predominant prehistoric culture
of southern Britain during the Bronze Age. It should not be confused with
the later Saxon kingdom of Wessex.

Active during the first half of the 2nd millennium BC, knowledge of the
Wessex people comes from their burial practices as no settlement evidence
has yet been positively identified. They buried their dead under barrows
using inhumation at first but later using cremation and always with rich
grave goods. It has been argued that they were an immigrant race, replacing
the earlier Beaker people.

They appear to have had wide ranging trade links with continental Europe,
importing amber from the Baltic, jewellery from modern day Germany, gold
from Brittany as well as daggers and beads from Mycenaean Greece and vice
versa. ....construct the second and third (megalithic) phases of Stonehenge
and also indicates a powerful form of social organisation." From

Sounds like kin folk of Amesbury Archer.

Note the Mycenian link as for Abarus but maybe it was a link to places like
Massilia and Phonoecian/Etruscans.

Why all the trade links well it was the Age of Copper and Ireland was
exporting it as well as gold.

"The Late Bronze Age begins around 1200 BC, and brings to Ireland "a whole
new range of bronze implements and weapons, such as socketed axe-heads and
swords." This is an age strongly identified with the appearance of the first
"hill forts" and "ring forts", a mark of Hallstatt Celtic culture, which
appear only to date back to the seventh century BC in central Europe. "

This raises the possibility that Amesbury Archer and his friends were
involved in the european trade network. Copper from Ireland Tin from
Cornwall. Sitting pretty for the Bronze Age.

As the Hill Forts were in Ireland earlier than the hillforts in Central
Europe. There is another possibility. That is that hillforts began in
Ireland from ideas gained from the Middle East and the ideas then spread
through the Irish trade network to the continent.

Society becomes stratified and soldiering is the main pursuit of the
nobility. Armies with chariots are organised and warfare becomes much more

And that means the males count for a bit more than when the women were the
most important as they did the farming and held the land with the sweat of
their brow. The last vestiges of the old pattern is seen with the Picts.

Now the men will hold the land with the sword. A huge backwards step in many

Anyway enough. I will save R1b1c etcfor next time.


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