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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-05 > 1147315683


From: "Alister John Marsh" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] DYS 463 and S25+
Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 14:49:01 +1200
In-Reply-To: <NFBBJIGLNLMGJIOLOGFBEEMNGMAA.scorpion@netconnect.com.au>


Dennis,

DYS463=23 (DNAH calibration/ 25 Sorenson calibration) are not the only ones
who have a lot of missing DYS463 on Sorenson, but as 23 is relatively rare,
it is interesting that a lot with 23 did not get results on Sorenson. The
mutation which caused S25 may have been thousands of years before the
founding of the Irish type III cluster, in which case S25 will be found in
many different haplotypes.

The Tagert MABKF who I understand is S25+, had DYS463 missing when tested on
Sorenson. I have also S25+ as tested by EA, and I have DYS463 missing on
Sorenson. Whether the missing DYS463 in Sorenson tests is significant or
not, it is represented in the early results.

My feeling is, that the Irish type III possibly has a distinctive SNP of
it's own near DYS463, which has not yet been identified. We just have to
wait until a S25 test result is reported for this Irish type III cluster.
In one survey I did, 48% of this Irish type III cluster had missing DYS463
on Sorenson. If S25 was very widely distributed (say in most or all R1b),
then one would expect more than the approximately 9% missing DYS463 found in
AMH like R1bs as a whole, if it had the same 48% missing rate as the Irish
type III cluster. We will just have to see what the picture looks like when
more S25 results are in.

If you tested for S25, EA would be looking at the whole neighbourhood of
DYS463, and there is a chance they would find a different SNP from S25 in
that area, but possibly they would find S25 as well. As you are part of the
Irish type III cluster, it would be interesting if you were tested.

Has anybody from the Irish type III tested with EA for S25 yet? I don't
know of anybody.

John.

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Wright [mailto:]
Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 12:57 PM
To:
Subject: [DNA] DYS 463 and S25+

Dear Listers,

I see from John McEwan's R1b SNP Summary
http://www.geocities.com/mcewanjc/r1bsnp.htm , that the person that tested
S25+ is probably of Scots cluster. When I check his values, Ysearch ID
MABKF, I find DYS463 =22.

Part of the modal for the Irish III cluster is DYS463 = 23, and many results
in SMGF, that have other Irish III markers, have been reported Null at
DYS463. There has been a hypothesis that this marker may be hard to read
because of a SNP in the primer area, which is where I believe S25 was found
by David Faux, and while DNAH has persevered and obtained a reading, DYS463
= 23 for Irish III, Sorensen has not continued to try for a result and
reported a Null. Now we have the first publicly released S25+ result and it
is not Irish III or DYS463=23.

Does this mean S25 is NOT associated with these nulls or 23 values at
DYS463? David Faux seems to indicate that ALL S25 tests so far have been
S25+. David said: "We know that the handful of customers tested so far (all
of British ancestry - England and Scotland and all S21 / S28 minus) are
S25+".
And even if I tested S25+ it would not differentiate Irish III from Scots.

I am still waiting on M37 and P66 and possibly there is something there,
otherwise of those SNPs that I have not been tested:-
S25+ MABKF
S50+ M8PSX
S28+
S28+/S44+ F9D0B
S28+/S48+ FV9RZ, 7K8CD
Looking at their markers, none of these seem remotely like Irish III

Cheers,
Dennis Wright
Irish Type III
6PWCD
R1b1c*


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