GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-05 > 1147823271
From: "brian quinn" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Help Please - Irish Surnames
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:47:51 +1000
Nora, Fitz is just a corruption of fils or filles the French for
son/daughter of. So really like Mac.
Fitzroy families descended from various Kings of England so "son/daughter
of Royal". Princess Diana was descended from one of them.
I think it is the origin of the illegitimate Fitz idea.
All the other Fitz indicate Norman French except for FitzPatrick- supposedly
one of the two? Viking origin names in Ireland.
Sent: Wednesday, 17 May 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Help Please - Irish Surnames
Thanks for the info, Jason. So, it looks like my husband's line (E3b)
incorporated the Norman's custom by using Fitz to indicate male heirs. I
when his surname changed from Gerardini to Geraldini? Perhaps it had to do
pronounciation, Italian vs Norman.
I had to laugh when you mentioned that Fitz may indicate illegitimacy. When
my husband and I were first engaged in 1973, I found an article in an Irish
American paper that said those families that spelled FitzGerald with a
"G" (as he did) were descendants of illegitimate sons of lords. He was
appalled. I have since heard various versions of the name origin.
In a message dated 5/16/2006 12:21:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
E3b is also possible... I've found several E3b FitzGeralds. At least
FitzGeralds are possibly descended from the Italian Geraldini that had
to Normandy sometime around the 10th century.
Some FitzGeralds match typical Irish R1b haplotypes. Some also match
seemingly continental R1b.
So we are looking at least 3 different origins for them but the patronymic
Fitz is definitely linked to the Normans.
E3b seems to spike notably around Roman settlements along the atlantic
facade but some are thought to have moved into the isles later with the
including a group of Sephardic Jews who left Spain.
Fitz originally meant "son of" but was later used to indicate illegitimate
children of royal individuals so some Fitz names may be entirely non-Norman
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