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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-05 > 1147904147


From: "M True" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Help Please - Irish Surnames
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 23:21:12 +0100
References: <479.701556.319c1a9d@aol.com>


Hi John,

Al this information on the FitzGeralds is great, thanks for looking it up.

> For you Geraldine buffs out there, here's the earliest annal entry I can
> find mentioning Fitzgeralds in Ireland:
>
> Annales Hiberniae
> Author: James Grace of Kilkenny
>
> 1170. Mauricius Geraldinus, uterinus frater Stephanidis, cum decem
> equitibus, sagittariis triginta, circaque peditibus, in Hyberniam
applicuit cum
> duabus navibus ad Weisfordiam.
>
> Can anyone read Latin? This says something about Maurice Geraldinus,
> brother (of the womb) of Stephen, with 100? horsemen, 30? archers and 50?
> footsoldiers came to Ireland (Hybernia) with two ships to Co. Wexford.

I'm interested in all this having just been tested at DNA Tribes and the
results coming back with two results in the "Excellent" match bracket, one
being Scotland and the second being Syria - my paternal grandmother was a
FitzGerald so this FitzGerald element would be 1/8 of my autosomal DNA. All
ancestors discovered so far on all lines are from the British Isles
(earliest 1657 and latest 1820)- probably relating to the Scottish match as
this is the only native population matched for in the British Isles in this
test. As for the Syrian link...who knows? I have recently read that the
FitzGeralds were involved in the crusades - does anyone have any information
on this?

I have also recently been reading the book "The Fight for Welsh Freedom" by
Gwynfor Evans published in 2000 just to try to get a different perspective
on Welsh history and found that because of the role the FitzGerald's played
in both Wales and Ireland they get a few mentions tying up with the Latin
mentioned above and other elements people have contributed.

In the book Gwynfor relates that Princess Nest (presumably Nesta is the
Latin version of her name while Nest is the Welsh) is famous in Wales for
not only being the daughter of Rhys ap Tewdwr (last king of Deheubarth,
descendant of Hywel Dda and Rhodri Mawr), but also for being the husband of
Gerald of Windsor (Castellan of Pembroke Castle), mother of Maurice &
Raymond FitzGerald and Robert FitzStephen but also for being the grandmother
of Giraldus Cambrensis through her daughter Angharad. Gerald Cambrensis
"who fought long and courageously to convert St David's into a Welsh
archbishopric independent of Canterbury". I have not found who the father
of Giraldus Cambrensis was yet....anyone know?

This bit is relevant to the FitzGeralds, FitzStephens and Ireland.

"Rhys ap Gruffudd Restores Welsh Rule Throughout the South:
...Most of the last three decades of his long rule were a time of peace and
prosperity. It is true that although the Normans had been defeated, the
Marcher Lordships could still cause trouble. This was largely overcome by a
strategem adopted by Rhys which had profound, mostly unhappy, consequences
in Ireland.

Dermot, king of Leinster, had appealed in vain to Henry II (of England) for
help in regaining his throne. He then appealed to Rhys who saw an
opportunity of riding himself of troublesome Norman barons. He released
Robert FitzStephen from prison, where he had been incarcerated since his
defeat by Rhys two years previously, on condition that he led a Norman force
to Ireland to help Dermot. FitzStephen was a son of the Princess Nest and,
like Rhys, a grandson of king Rhys ap Tewdwr. He was joined by Maurice
FitzGerald who had been lord of Llansteffan before his defeat by Rhys, and
also Raymond FitzGerald, former lord of Emlyn. Like FitzStephen, both were
sons of Nest and grandsons of Rhys ap Tewdwr. Trevelyan notes that many in
this last Norman conquest were sons of Welsh mothers"

"Giradus the Welshman, Three-quarters Norman:
Giraldus Cambrensis, grandson of Princess Nest, wrote two unique books about
Wales in splendid Latin which are an invaluable source of detailed knowledge
of Wales in the time of Rhys ap Gruffudd. One was written after he toured
Wales with Archbishop Baldwin who sought with some success to recruit men
for the crusade ........ . Gerald's grandmother's Welsh blood ensured that
he wrote fairly impartially about Wales, although his first loyalty was to
the Normans."

Anyone else got any FitzGerald snippets?

John.

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