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From: "brian quinn" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Fitzgeralds
Date: Tue, 23 May 2006 17:42:03 +1000
In-Reply-To: <49a.366f3b.31a266b9@aol.com>


the good Richard Gerard Pierse's uncle Jack, wrote this fantastic doc on the
FitzMaurice family and their FitzGerald relatives.

at http://www.econ.surrey.ac.uk/staff/rpierse/pierse/book.pdf


It a previous email I mentioned Peper Harow near Compton

Pg 190 onwards for Doomsday extracts- nice to see primary sources"

Here's what Doomsday actually said:

"The same Walter (fitz Other) and Girard under him, holds PEPERHAROW. Alward
held it of
King Edward. It was then assessed for 5 hides; now for 3 hides. There is
land for 3 ploughs.
In demesne there are 2 ploughs, a mill worth 7 shillings, and 15 acres of
meadow. There are 4
villeins and 3 cottars with one plough. In the time of King Edward, and
afterwards, it was
worth 30 shillings; now (it is worth) 100 shillings.
IN KINGSTON HUNDRED
Walter (fitz Other) himself holds one man of the soke of KINGSTON, to whom
he has etc...."

One can see that it has been miscopied as in the previous email and in fact
FitzOther holds it at Doomsday 1086 with Girard under him. But in the time
of King Edward poor old Alward had it. Thus clearing up some of the
genealogies that have Walter FitzOther getting the land in Edward
Confessor's time.



Here's some extracts:

"In the year 1177, King Henry II at a Council held at Oxford, granted the
"Kingdom of Cork"
extending from the river Blackwater at Lismore to Brandon Head in Kerry
(i.e. the old province of
Desmond) to Robert FitzStephen and Milo (or Miles) de Cogan, and the
"Kingdom of Limerick" (i.e.
roughly Thomond) to Philip de Braose. Robert FitzStephen was the son of
Stephen, castellan of
Abertivy in Wales, by Nesta of Wales, and was thus a step-brother to Maurice
fitz Gerald, ancestor of
the Kildare, Desmond and Kerry Geraldines, and Milo de Cogan was the son of
a daughter to Gerald
de Windsor and so a cousin to Maurice fitz Gerald. They held the "Kingdom of
Cork" for the services
of 60 knight's fees.
Being granted lands and actually holding lands were two entirely different
things: de Braose
was driven out of his newly acquired territory by Donall O'Brien, and
FitzStephen and de Cogan were
obliged to come to terms with Diarmuid McCarthy, dispossessed King of
Desmond, in order to
maintain some at least of their granted lands. FitzStephen settled for the
east and de Cogan for the
west side of Cork city.
It was not until about the year 1197 that we find the Normans firmly
established in the"

This is the bit kindly ..."translation courtesy of Riadach at
http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/ and M True"

"Moreover Gerald went, on that journey under the direction of the king and
he won every battle and every conflict over the welsh so that all of Wales
was turned into sheep land (with/against/through) peace and tranquility so
that tax and the law of the king of the Saxons was levied upon them in spite
of them; and women were given between them afterwards i.e. the daughter of
the most noble night i.e. Nesta was her name and it was she who was mother
to Robert FitzStephens and to the bishop of St David's, and she bore
children to that Gerald, i.e. Morris and William."

So Maurice and William are half brothers to Robert FitzStephen and the
Bishop of St David.


"At Bristol Dermot secured the services of
Richard de Clare, Earl of Pembroke, better known as Richard Strongbow, and
at St. David's in Wales,
enlisted the aid of Maurice fitz Gerald and his half-brother Robert fitz
Stephen (Nesta of Wales was
their common mother) amongst others of the Geraldine family. To Strongbow
Dermot offered in
reward the hand in marriage of his daughter, and upon his death the kingdom
of Leinster, and to
Maurice and Stephen he promised the town of Wexford and the adjoining
district.
In May, 1169, an expeditionary force of 100 knights and men-at-arms in coats
of mail and
about 600 archers, who with other foot soldiers comprised a total force of
something like 2,000 men,
under the leadership of Robert fitz Stephen and Maurice Prendergast landed
at Bannow in Wexford.
A month or so later, a fresh force under Maurice fitz Gerald arrived, and
the following year,
in May 1170, Strongbow's advance guard of about 800 men under the command of
Raymond le Gros
landed in Ireland.
The war-cry of the Geraldines "St. David for Wales" was soon to be heard on
all battle"

So Robert FitzStephen was in the very first Norman attack on Ireland. The
half brother of Maurice FitzGerald who went in the later mob a month later.
So they are related through Nesta their mother.

So maybe Robert Mor is Robert FitzStephen. You would send the Big man in the
first wave after all! The Mor.

So the above Robert FitzStephen was half brother to Morris, William, Anghard
and the Good Bishop. And whoever else Nesta gave birth to.(might make a good
movie!)

There is a genealogy from 1615 in British Museum produced for the Parliament
in dispute on who was the premier baron in Ireland detailed in the doc.

See pg 33 for a genealogy(49 in the pdf count).

They leave out Robert FitzStephen.

Genug ist genug.

quinny





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Subject: [DNA] Fitzgeralds



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