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From: "John McEwan" <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] "M222+" is not the same as "NW Irish" is not the same as "Ui Neill"
Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 19:54:19 +1200
In-Reply-To: <BAY112-F225FA30F3A4BE180F2541EA5980@phx.gbl>


Dear Don, John, Jason and Brian

Currently we do not know the ancient paternal M222+ ancestors came from.
The evidence to date based on SNP tests, and the STR haplotypes that
these SNP tests are associated with, provides no supporting evidence of
any recent migration (last 3000 years) from elsewhere to Ireland for
this M222+ group. If there had been, we would have most likely seen the
distinctive STR profiles where they emerged already and I am sure
somebody would have SNP tested a few as well. The list would be engaged
in an exciting discussion about how the Gaels/Ui Neill ancestors came
from Iberia, Austria or wherever.

Both S21 and S28 are examples of the phenomena.

Any migration in the last 3000 odd years would have had to have been
more than a few people and almost certainly would have left some closely
related STR haplotypes M222+ individuals behind.

It is possible that M222+ exists, but in a different STR haplotype that
diverged a very long time ago and has yet to be sampled. As more people
get tested this possibility will diminish. If somebody is found like
this it would be very exciting especially if they were from the
continent.

So we get back to them being aboriginal Irish. Is there anything wrong
with this? It seems to be rather strongly resisted.

M222+ individuals belong to the R1b1c(xS21,S28) subgroup and this seems
to be concentrated in western Europe from Iberia to Belgium and the
British Isles. A reasonable guess is prior to M222+ emerging they were
part of this larger group and this most likely was based in the lower
part of this region during the last ice age.

I am being distinctly provocative because to overturn the above
conclusion more people have to be SNP tested. My test result has not yet
been received but it is on order.

Cheers

John McEwan



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