Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-08 > 1154877972

From: "Phil Goff" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] DYS #'s and nationalities
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 10:26:12 -0500
References: <001101c6b913$dbe0ae50$6402a8c0@SUSAN01> <004501c6b94f$03040d70$bb2bb843@YOURF8387228BF> <002a01c6b963$ee368890$6400a8c0@Ken1>


You made the point better than I did. Sue seems to be new to the List and
may not have followed the development of this 12/13 split a couple of years
ago. It provides a good illustration of tilting the odds, but not reading
something into it that is not implied. Your more detailed explanation should
help Sue. Thanks,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] DYS #'s and nationalities

> From: "Phil Goff" <>
> . For example, I am in haplogroup I1a
>> and have DYS462=12. According to the high level geographic analysis, this
>> would indicate that my ancestors were not ultra-Norse, when the evidence
>> based on my specific haplotype is that they were.
> "ultraNorse" I1a means a haplotype with DYS462 = 13, 390 = 23, and 385 =
> 14-15, and of course DYS455 = 8. It is found almost always with
> Scandinavian roots, and especially Norwegian. Only a few are found in
> Germany or Netherlands. The probability is high the founder of this
> ultraNorse population was in Scandinavia.
> That fact says nothing about the distribution of DYS462 = 12 I1a. In
> fact, it represents over half the Swedish and Danish I1a and almost half
> the Norwegian I1a --- but almost all the German I1a and elsewhere in
> continental Europe. I have pointed this out a number of times. DYS462 =
> 13 I1a seems to have had a more recent founder than DYS462 = 12 I1a, based
> on a smaller ASD (average squared difference) for its population's marker
> repeat values. The scenario is that once there was almost only DYS462 = 12
> I1a in Europe during which era I1a finally made the spread up into
> Scandinavia. A new founder with a DYS462 = 13 mutation happened up in
> Scandinavia somewhere and started a prolific line which to this day is
> primarily confined to Scandinavia and those other places in the world
> where Scandinavians emigrated in good number.
> Ken

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