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From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
Subject: Amber route was Re: [DNA] R1b Hg Project Modals for FTDNA YSTR markers 38-67 upgrade panel
Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:04:34 -0300
References: <000501c6be59$daac0070$6400000a@eldonathome> <002f01c6be7d$f3650070$0d139a8e@PeterAKincaid> <000801c6be7f$60c7aae0$6400a8c0@Ken1> <003901c6be86$0b512440$0d139a8e@PeterAKincaid> <001701c6be89$ee5c4820$6400a8c0@Ken1> <000701c6bea0$ce976170$0c139a8e@PeterAKincaid>


I forgot to note that what also draws me to this scenario is
the degree of the Dolichocephalic people along this
route. There certainly is a line of commonality in terms of
long skull people from Portugal through the British Isles
to the Denmark/Frisia area. Compare to the more Brachycephalic
people of interior Europe. The Phoenecian trade in amber
could also bring Sicily into the picture (albeit on a smaller
scale).

Best wishes!

Peter



----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 3:22 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b Hg Project Modals for FTDNA YSTR markers 38-67
upgrade panel


>>> Yes but what is the origin. Quite a scatter to the S21s and lots of
>>> angles to consider. Lot of back and forth movement between the
>>> British Isles and the North/Baltic seas.
>>
>> Many more peoples migrated from the continent to British Isles than vice
>> versa. When I count the pedigrees of the Frisian R1b haplotype in SMGF,
>> there are a good number of haplotypes in both the British Isles and
>> Greater Frisia. But what stands out is the number of Danish pedigrees.
>> Normalized by total size of country samples, Denmark seems like the place
>> of origin instead of Netherlands or Germany.
>
>
> I don't doubt the connection and really am open to any
> scenario. However, there are a couple of things that
> just keep coming back to me. First of all, in terms of
> deeper ancestry R1b is more of a western Europe family
> and one would think more of the I haplogroup for the North/Baltic
> Sea area. Secondly, there was always back and forth movement
> between the Isles and the North Sea/Baltic Sea states. If I recall
> correctly there was a circa 5th century British settlement around
> Katwijk.
>
> However, the thing that troubles me the most is the amber trade.
> I can't help but think that this had a big impact on the two areas. We
> know that the eastern route was controlled by the Scythians. On the
> western end the Phoenicians had a big play in this and figuring in
> any western route was the British Isles. My gut feeling is that this is
> the story to be told here.
>
> My (I say my because I do not know of anyone who previously
> proposed this in this manner) hypothesis is that the western
> amber route accounts for the R1b we are concerned about
> here. I think that along the route a more foreign element was sprinkled
> among the native populations. I am not necessarily inclined towards the
> Phoenicians themselves but at least their trading partner in this. What I
> am thinking though is that they modelled themselves after the Phoenician
> practises and established something akin to city states along the route as
> stopping points to resupply as they sailed along to Abalus-Samland.
> One would have to look at Pytheas' route as a guide. Key in
> all this is Cornwall. The Dumnonii are located there by
> Ptolemy. This could explain the similarity/connection to
> the Dumnonii of the Glasgow, Scotland area. Furthermore,
> a key stopping point would be the Orkneys which were known
> to have an more advanced society. I think this explains why
> you have the British Dumna Island placed in the area by Ptolemy.
> There likely was a stopping point on the Irish side and perhaps
> this explains the Fir Bolg. All in all, there is much to write
> and fit into this scenario. Something new and a little far fetched
> but I can't help but keep coming back to this.
>
> Best wishes!
>
> Peter A. Kincaid
> Fredericton, NB, Canada
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Census images 1901, 1891, 1881 and 1871, plus so much more.
> Ancestry.com's United Kingdom & Ireland Collection. Learn more:
> http://www.ancestry.com/s13968/rd.ashx
>
>

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