GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives
Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-08 > 1156347921
From: <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Oceans Rising and the Mesolithic
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:45:21 -0700
References: <006a01c6c666$d588e440$0200a8c0@NEURON>
Anyone wanting a crash course in sea level changes---and their impact on
coastlines----over the millenia should check out the early chapters of
Steven Oppenheimer's EDEN in the EAST (Oppenheimer is my DNA and ancient
migrations guru as well.)
But the bottomline is that evidence shows the sea risings were not always
slow over millenia...and sometimes (e.g. ca 7kya)they bolted up/inland at
the rate of about a mile a week----leading to many of our flood myths. I
won't use up space here elaborating on all this, but just wanted to give a
heads up to those of you musing about such things...
Debra Katz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Mountain" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: RE: [DNA] Genes and the Mesolithic of the British isles
> Compared to modern data, sea-level rise was quite rapid after the last
> glacial maximum, but by human standards, pretty slow. From my reading, I
> gather that during the last glacial maximum, sea level was 130 meters
> lower
> than today. As the Ice cap melted, sea-level rise increased 1.6 cm per
> year
> for about 8,000 years. Sea level began to stabilize about 4,000 years
> ago.
> I should think someone would have taken modern bathymetry along with other
> data to reconstruct how the land masses changed during this time period.
> Has
> anyone come across maps showing these sorts of changes as a function of
> time? I suspect that people didn't migrate across large water bodies by
> chance since not everyone would have a boat and would have been motivated
> to
> move even if they knew where the islands were located. Did the land
> bridge
> disappear 12,000 years ago or more like 5,000 years ago?
>
>
>
> A side note: Global Warming Art has a number of interesting charts related
> to sea-level rise as well as global warming.
>
>
>
> http://www.globalwarmingart.com/wiki/Sea_Level_Gallery
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: brian quinn [mailto:]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:03 PM
> To:
> Subject: RE: [DNA] Genes and the Mesolithic of the British isles
>
>
>
> I read that the flooding of the Dogger Bank was gradual. So there was a
>
> stage where it was in islands and archipelago. You would have paddled from
>
> one to another. Memories are excellent and as the flooding occurred the
>
> fisher folk would know where each of the islands were just like the
>
> Polynesian navigators of the Pacific. Pole Star and the rising sun and the
>
> moon as guide when the islands disappeared under the briney. But on a
>
> summer's day you would see the cumulo nimbus rising above the large
> landmass
>
> to the west.
>
>
>
> And they also would have travelled along the south coast of England after
>
> crossing at Dover. They would have dropped in on campsites along the way-
>
> revealed by the smoke. Then traded a bit of amber,fish etc. And swap
> stories
>
> and soon someone twigs can sail straight from France to England just
> follow
>
> the north star, its easy. Or sitting in Brittany, wait till a cold front
> has
>
> gone through and the wind turns to a southerly with the finer weather and
>
> sail across to north. When the next front goes through, sail south with a
>
> tail wind. Need a steering board or out rigger if sailing in a dug out
>
> though. Wonder if they had them then?
>
>
>
> See www.bmapa.org/pdf/palaeo_meso.pdf they are dredging the offshore sand
>
> for Britain's freeways.
>
>
>
> Don't the changes in Microlith technology say something about the density
> of
>
> population. So when you get the later tech which is cruder the country has
>
> filled up- 100 people or so per 10 sq km? So you can't just wander over
> to
>
> the best patch of flint anymore because you now have to pay the land owner
>
> for it, so you make do with what's to hand. Later when the climate
>
> deteriorates again the pop drops and you can get the nice flint and go
> back
>
> to the neater job with the narrow microlith.
>
>
>
> So maybe the distribution of microlith tech maps the economic and pop
>
> situation. When you get to about a 100 people close to another 100 people
>
> you start to get institutions. Things like tribes, septs, totem. Basic
>
> government has to happen- things like "that Oak tree is the boundary
> between
>
> the 3 tribes, we only fight if you're over the line without it being a
> party
>
> so bring beer or spear".
>
>
>
>
>
> Brian Quinn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: Peter A. Kincaid [mailto:]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 12:16 AM
>
> To:
>
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Genes and the Mesolithic of the British isles
>
>
>
>> Crossing from the continent much further west than the
>
>> area opposite Dover seems very unlikely, not because
>
>> it was technically impossible, but because the simple
>
>> very small-scale nature of Mesolithic society makes
>
>> launching a boat towards a land that you cannot see or
>
>> even know exists bordering on insane(the world view of
>
>> Mesolithic societies was probably very small indeed).
>
>
>
>
>
> Again this can be a confusing point as one has
>
> to look at things in context of a timeline as
>
> surely this is a very fluid area. While vast parts
>
> of the North Sea were above water they did not
>
> instantly fill in so the map changed quite a bit
>
> over time and at various points along the way.
>
>>From the very beginning you have the
>
> largest land mass exposed. At that point we are
>
> dealing with a very small nomadic population.
>
> By the end (ie. the period just before final
>
> coverage) I understand you are mainly left with
>
> the Dover area land bridge and an island in the
>
> Dogger bank area. The way I understand your
>
> point I assume you are dealing more with the final
>
> Dover land bridge. If you were to accept that
>
> there could still have been migrations from a
>
> Dogger bank island then, given the distance, English
>
> Channel crossings are just as likely.
>
>
>
> Regardless, if one considers Dogger land to just
>
> apply to lands east of Dover then one still has to accept
>
> that the same conditions made crossing plausible
>
> west of Dover as one could see land to the north.
>
> I refer to the graphic at:
>
>
>
> http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/projects/marine/alsf/seabed_prehistory/sea_level
>
> _map.html
>
>
>
> which covers coast lines from Dover west to the
>
> vicinity of the Channel Islands. I also refer to the
>
> mapping project graphic at:
>
>
>
> http://www.arch-ant.bham.ac.uk/research/fieldwork_research_themes/projects/N
>
> orth_Sea_Palaeolandscapes/index.htm
>
>
>
> which outlines the extent of the once exposed areas.
>
> While the eastern part may have been the last infilled
>
> it is clear that western points were much more open
>
> for crossings. After all one would almost certainly
>
> see points in between and venture there. Remember
>
> that one can see the Scilly islands from Cornwall and
>
> I believe that back in the Neolithic age they were mainly
>
> one island.
>
>
>
> Best wishes!
>
>
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> ______________________________
>
>
>
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