Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-08 > 1156589385

From: Alan R <>
Subject: RE: [DNA] Silly paper talk 'the Irish came from Spain' etc
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:49:48 +0100 (BST)
In-Reply-To: <>

With reference to the physical description of the
Silures, the Irish just do not answer the description.
I have cut and paste from a website an official
summary of a statistical survey of the Irish carried
out by Harvard in the 1940s. These statistics (the
ones quoted are for the Catholic Irish only) would
probably still stand today although average height has
significantly increased since then. I have cut out
some of the more outmoded interpretations and just
kept the statistics in:

'….based upon ...some 10,000 adult Irish males,
...this huge and amply documented series was measured
by Mr. C. Wesley Dupertuis under the auspices of the
Division of Anthropology of Harvard University, and
with the close coöperation of both governments in
Ireland. The data have been tabulated and seriated in
the Harvard Anthropometric Laboratory, under the
direction of Professor Earnest A. Hooton....The
composite Irishman, representing the mean of ten
thousand of his countrymen, is 35 years old, 172 cm.
tall, and weighs 157 pounds. He is well built,
muscular, and large boned, with shoulders 39 cm.
broad, and a trunk length which is 53.3 per cent of
his total height. His arms are long, and his span is
105.3 per cent of his stature. So far, his bodily
dimensions and proportions might be matched among
western Norwegians, Icelanders, many Swedes, Livs, and
Finns of Finland. His head is large, for Ireland has
consistently the largest head size of any equal land
area in Europe. The three principal vault dimensions
of his head, 196 mm. by 154 mm. by 125 mm., give him
the mesocephalic cephalic index of nearly 79, and the
moderately hypsicephalic length-height index of 64.
His cranial vault, like his body, could again be
matched among the larger-headed peoples of Scandinavia
and the Baltic lands...He is comparable in these
respects to the western Norwegians, to the Livs, and
to some of the Finns….. Let us now examine the pigment
characters and morphological traits of the Irish, both
as a total group and regionally. In the first place,
the Irish are almost uniquely pale skinned when
unexposed, untanned parts of the body, are observed.
Out of 10,000 men, over 90 per cent had skins of the
pale pink shade represented by von Luschan #3, while
not a single individual was darker than von Luschan
#11..The pale Irish skin, where exposed to the sun,
shows a marked inclination to freckling. Forty per
cent of the entire group are freckled to some extent;
in Kerry the ratio rises as high as 60 per cent…..The
hair color of the Irish is predominantly brown; black
hair accounts for less than 3 per cent of the total,
while the ashen series (Fischer #20-26) amounts to but
one-half of one per cent. Forty per cent have dark
brown hair (Fischer #4-5); 35 per cent have medium
brown (Fischer #7-9); reddish brown hues total over 5
per cent (closest to Fischer #6, #10), while clear
reds (Fischer #1-3) run higher than 4 per cent. The
rest, some 15 per cent, fall into a light brown to
golden blond category (Fischer #11-19). Thus the hair
color of the Irish is darker than that of most regions
of Scandinavia, but not much darker than Iceland; it
is notably different from Nordic hair, as exemplified
by eastern Norwegians and Swedes, in its almost total
lack of ash-blondism. The rufous hair color pigment
reaches a world maximum here; not so much in reds as
in the prevalance of golden hues in blond and brown
shades. The lightest hair is found in the Aran
Islands, where the commonest shade is, nevertheless,
medium brown; in the southwestern counties there are
more goldens and at the same time more dark-browns
than in Ireland as a whole, while the Great Plain runs
fairest of all. Red hair, with a regional maximum of 8
per cent, is commonest in Ulster, rarest in Waterford
and Wexford.In the proportion of pure light eyes,
Ireland competes successfully with the blondest
regions of Scandinavia. Over 46 per cent of the total
group has pure light eyes, and of these all but 4 per
cent are blue. Very light-mixed eyes (equivalent to
Martin #13-14) account for another 30 per cent, while
less than one-half of one per cent have pure brown.
There is probably no population of equal size in the
world which is lighter eyed, and blue eyed, than the
Irish. The almost total absence of gray eyes
corresponds to the equal paucity of ash-blond hair.
Compared to eastern Norway, Sweden, and Finnic and
Baltic groups, the eye color is disproportionately
light in comparison to hair color.

--- brian quinn <> wrote:

> Well Tacitus said that the Silures of Wales being
> dark and curly haired
> looked like Iberians and maybe had come from there.
> So Cunliffe not being
> that original.
> Maybe the Silures are eastern Mediterranean, with
> U6b mtdna, but arrived
> much earlier than Phoenician/Neolithic traders
> Interesting Silures had a pottery free and stone
> house free culture like the
> Gaelic folk, and also avoided the Iron Age.
> "There is a cluster of Neolithic and Bronze-Age
> monuments on the Gower
> Peninsula which may represent the original tribal
> homelands, but It would
> appear that the Iron-Age is not very well
> represented in Siluria. This is
> perhaps due to the tribespeople leading an almost
> wholly pastoral lifestyle,
> having no permanent stone-built dwellings, and
> preferring to live in
> make-shift temporary structures which have left very
> little archaeological
> evidence. Their aceramic (pottery-free) culture
> suggests that they survived
> mainly off the rich flora and fauna of woodland and
> marsh in a somewhat
> carefree hunter-gatherer type of lifestyle."
> It's interesting that Aborigines in Tasmania once
> they were cut off from the
> Australian mainland by the rising sea after the Last
> Glaciation even forgot
> simple things like fishing, maybe similarly the
> gaels cut off by the Post
> Bronze Age economic depression, forgot how to make
> pots. It intrigues me.
> brian quinn
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