Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-09 > 1159109716

From: "Dora Smith" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] E3b and redheads
Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:55:16 -0500
References: <><BAY105-F1695AC6B06EFC4FF8B923FCC210@phx.gbl><>

I have always wondered if tothe Romans, red hair meant red. It could have
met a more reddish blonde than that found in Rome, or it could have met
people who were more characteristically blonde, and I wonder how much Roman
perception of the Galls' character colored their perception of those
peoples' hair color. The Roman people were more like us than we are; I
have recently become involved in a Roman reenactment group and am very
struck by that. Actually, their manners and their outlook on the world
closely resembled the British in the 19th century, for soem reason that is
mucho hard to fathom. Nobody but Romans could be as melodramatic as a
modern person of European descent.

Also, which Germans were these? I think the Germans the Romans had the
most contact with ewre migrating off of the southern steppes. Some of them
had migrated there from southwestern Scandinavia.

Dora Smith
Austin, TX

----- Original Message -----
From: "A DesCartes" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] E3b and redheads

> You are getting really carried away- please allow me the favor of a repost
> to a previous thread below-
> It is ill-advised to suggest ethicity beyond a generalized caucasoid
> population..certainly inference of `Celtic` based upon Mendelian traits is
> a
> non-starter. I think a ``torque`` around the mummies neck would be more
> convincing of an obvious, immediate `celtic` attribution than possessing
> red
> hair. Go back to 98 a.d. and red hair was linked, in Roman eyes to the
> `Germans`.
> Tacitus- ``...the *tribes of Germany* none but themselves. Hence,
> too, the same physical peculiarities throughout so vast a population. *All
> have* fierce blue eyes, *red hair *,( *Latin-`rutilo*`, meaning *red /
> auburn )* huge frames, fit only for a sudden exertion``
> Suetonius- ( describing captured Gauls forced to dye their hair red so
> they
> could be paraded in Rome passed off as captured Germans) ``..he *chose
> all
> the tallest of the Gauls*, and as he expressed it, those who were "worthy
> of
> a triumph," as well as some of the chiefs. These he reserved for his
> parade,
> *compelling them not only to dye their hair red* and to let it grow long,
> but also to learn the language of the Germans and assume barbarian names.
> Reccessive Mendelian hair/eye traits are common to most all european
> populations and the current popular definitions of what features belong to
> who is a modern preconception based upon current geographical
> distribution.
> Any reccessive trait remains more visible / plentiful in isolated, remote
> locales where it will reinforce itself. In 98 a.d. the germany of Tacitus
> was an isolated population. Today, it has changed so much that we no
> longer
> even associate red hair with that population. Thus, there is no basis for
> concluding these mummies as `celts` as opposed to any other caucasoid
> population by factoring hair color.
> enough aleady.
> On 9/22/06, Steven Bird <> wrote:
>> Steve
>> Red-headed and blond
>> Thracians were found in the Balkans at least since the 7th millenium B.C.
>> (Webber, "The Thracians.") They were descended from the E3b*
>> (undifferientieated M35) cluster,
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