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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-10 > 1159973055


From: "David Wilson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b1c4, M153+ in Europe?
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 07:44:15 -0700
In-Reply-To: <001801c6e76b$b3a7e6c0$6400a8c0@Ken1>


The five to seven percent for M153+ I mentioned came from a Basque or
Iberian study. If the variety with 14/18/10 at 437/448/H4 is in fact to be
identified with R1b1c4, I'm not surprised to see the percentage attenuate in
an expanded range.

I can dig up citations for the studies I mentioned if anyone is interested,
but I believe there are no haplotypes associated with the articles --
certainly no extended haplotypes of the kind we want and need. The sample
sets were not huge.

I think Ken is on to a real possibility for another SNP identification with
this 14/18/10 cluster at 437/448/H4. It would be great if a few of the
people with this pattern (or patterns near it) would order deep clade tests.


Rambling through the public data bases for different FTDNA pages, I saw a
few 14/18 haplotypes with H4=11 (FTDNA convention). Ken, do you think that
variation represents a subcluster, or is it just noise?

David Wilson



-----Original Message-----
From:
[mailto:] On Behalf Of Ken Nordtvedt
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:15 PM
To:
Subject: [DNA] R1b1c4, M153+ in Europe?


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Wilson" <>

> Among the known Iberian SNPs, there is one found in Basque populations
> at the five to seven percent level and virtually nowhere else: M153.
> As yet there are no M153 hits (=R1b1c4) in the table John McEwan is
keeping.
>
> I would strongly encourage anyone with the motif Ken has noticed to
> get the FTDNA deep clade test or the full boat from EA. Feels to me
> like this could be another motif that will get its own clade label.


In SMGF the R1b with 437,448,H4 = 14,18,10(FTDNA) represents about 2 percent
of all R1b in database

Pedigree hits were

Iberia plus former colonies 19
British Isles 24
Germany 4
Sweden 2
Russia 1
Italy 1

plus USA, Australia, Canada Above counts can be converted to frequencies
with SMGF's published total country counts.

One apparent confirmed R1b1c4 with the 14,18 at 437,448 and Spanish surname
appears in New Mexico project. Haplotypes of this motif show up at decent
rates in just about every Iberian-connected database

Ken



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