Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-10 > 1160785715

From: "Alfred A. Aburto Jr." <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Oppenheimer's Book
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 17:28:35 -0700
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>


> Gary Felix wrote:

> yes a study related to Gipuzkoa, the heart of the Basque people, would be telling.
> Since mtdna haplogroup V is estimated to be 15K yo and its origin is Iberia, this would put mtdna haplogroup pre-V (ancestor of V) in Iberia upon the so called re-expansion of Europe. We know from V's frequency in Western Europe that it only played a minor role in this re-expansion apparently due to its recent origin at the time. Therefore I believe it would be better to concentrate on mtdna haplo. H when it comes to the Basque.

I don't know Gary, because the paper below (Pereira, 2005) indicates
parallel behavors of V, H1 & H3, but in this paper Pereira seems unaware
of the ancient mtDNA work (Izagirre, 1999 for example) which casts doubt
on Torroni's (1998,1999) work. This is puzzling to me. How can she
(Pereira) not be aware of Izagirre and the ancient mtDNA work!? I can
only conclude that the full story is not yet developed. This is just my
personal conclusion, opinion.

Also in the paper below I note that Pereira indicates (page 21 right)
that H* appears to be 29,900 years old by one method and then 17,600
years old by another method. From this I cannot see how she concludes
what is given in the following Discussion section. The logic just
doesn't follow Gary, in my mind anyway. I would not conclude what
Pereira concludes in the Discussion section from the widely different H*
age estimates. I, personally, would stop right there and try to find out
why there is such a discrepancy in the age of H*.

I just think it is too soon to draw definitive conclusions, that is all.

> (from Gary: ) This study, which I posted a couple of days ago

> states:
> "The patterns of frequency and diversity suggest that haplogroup H entered Europe from the Near East 20,000–25,000 years ago, around the time of the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM), and some sub-clades re-expanded from an Iberian refugium when the glaciers retreated 15,000 years ago. This shows that a large fraction of the maternal ancestry of modern Europeans traces back to the expansion of hunter-gatherer populations at the end of the last Ice Age."
> "It is thought to have evolved in the vicinity of the Near East 23,000–28,000 years ago, and to have spread into Europe 20,000 years ago."
> This paper took 649 samples from 20 populations from Europe, the Caucasus, and the Near East and broke down the subclades of mtdna haplo. H and found the most prevalent haplogroup subclade was H1. This subclade was found to be most prevalent formost in Madrid then the Basque Country (where, makes a difference so it not may be representative of the Basque people as a whole). Coupled with the Basque highest prevalence of haplotype 15 (aka WAMH) it would appear that the non-recombinant DNA of the Basque is the most represented in Western Europe.
> Here is the H subclades with descriptions from FTDNA
> Gary
> Mexico DNA Project Admin.

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