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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-11 > 1162432389


From: David Faux <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ice age refugiums
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:53:09 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <20061102012912.26829.qmail@web57015.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


Very interesting Mike since Mr. Boulanger is 13 at DYS492 which is a stong indicator of S21+ status. Another piece of the puzzle perhaps? The story gets more and more interesting - and informative. Imagine a year from now. I am predicting that I will be able to draw a map relating to S21 (and S28) finds across Europe and link clusters at the core with some tribal affiliations - but then again I am a strong optomist and I may be asking too much of SNP results. We are in the process of doing this with NW Irish via M222 so I won't rule it out. So far the hypothesis about S28 in the Danelaw of Eastern England appears to be holding - plus a few others we have on the go (for example S28, Vestfold Norway, and Orkney).

David Faux
S28+

Michael Maddi <> wrote:
<snipped>
My reply:

As someone else noted in this thread, the two Italian
paternal lines who have tested S21+ are Francesco
Cesaroni and me. There is another R1b member of the
Sicily Project who informed me 2 months ago that he
had ordered the S-series test from Ethnoancestry. He
only has 12 markers, but since he was labelled WAMH by
FTDNA, I didn't think his chances of being S21+ were
great. I asked him to report to me what his S-series
results are, but he hasn't gotten back to me yet.

One problem I had with encouraging Sicily Project
members who are R1b to test the S-series is the
prospect that they might find out later from FTDNA
that they are P66+ . However, there's probably not
much chance of that and David's money back guarantee
for the S-series test if someone comes back P66+ may
help encourage others to test.

As an indication of what unusual R1b types may await
SNP testing of Italian R1b paternal lines, one of the
Sicily Project R1b members came back as R1b1b (M73+)
in the deep clade test. I reported on this before,
surprised that a subclade which seems to be almost
solely found in Central Asia would show up in an
Italian line. Then I was contacted by Vince Vizachero,
administrator of the Italy Project, who reported that
he has a distant relative with 37 markers who he
believes is also R1b1b. This is based on the unusual
haplotype which seems closest to the 25 marker
haplotype of the Sicily Project who is M73+.

As far as the source for R1b in Italian lines, I would
have to agree with Ken that it could be Norman (for
Sicily and southern Italy) or Longobard/Goth/Vandal
(for nothern Italy) or the remnants of an Italian
refugium or a combination of all three. In regard to
David's comments above speculating about what
similarities there may be between Italian and French
R1b lines, it's worth noting that I am looking at
R1b's with null 425 and 492=13/390=23/447=24/460=10,
which may represent some sort of cluster of S21+. I
have those values. One of the others who shares those
values with me has the surname Boulanger and his line
is from France. He has not been tested for S21, but I
would bet he would be positive. We are a GD of 20
apart at 67 markers. Here's a link to a haplotype
comparison between us on ysearch -
http://tinyurl.com/yfexvj

Mike Maddi
Co-Administrator of the Sicily Project




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