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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-11 > 1162499655


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Neolithic J2 and E3b in Britain? Maybe not.
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 13:34:15 -0700
References: <3b2a446a0611010918j45594e12r28817e9f8821f252@mail.gmail.com><042401c6fe97$5ce8b830$6401a8c0@Precision360><3b2a446a0611020852u457ad5e8n68b92b2596ec2566@mail.gmail.com><002301c6fe9f$e6148f00$6400a8c0@Ken1><454A281C.4010200@sbcglobal.net><003301c6fea4$3e0849a0$6400a8c0@Ken1><3b2a446a0611021215h61cedffg7107d56be981f8c3@mail.gmail.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sasson Margaliot" <>

> Just look at transition from D to D2b - FIVE parallel mutations! And
> there
> are many other odd things...


By 5 parallel mutations do you mean 5 "equivalent" SNPs? In Jobling tree I
count 7 equivalent SNPs to define D2, and then another for D2b. But that's
not important.

These are just SNP mutations at different places in the ydna. I don't know
why the term "parallel" is brought into their description?

I believe multiple equivalent SNP mutations defining major haplogroups is
the rule and is to be expected. It is just a matter of when each of them
are discovered. In some cases they were discovered in a burst, in other
cases spread out in time or not yet. Look at I1a --- 4 equivalent SNPs
defining it, or (new) I1b2 having 4 equivalent SNPs. Haplogroup I has M170,
P19, M258 and maybe P38 already.

If you look at the reduced tree, there are typically a good number of
generations between generalized founders --- males with at least two male
descendants whose lines persist to the present. If there is an average of
one SNP produced per father/son transition, then the typical generalized
founder --- who are after all the only guys who have the potential to become
founders of clades --- will have a good number of unique SNPs accumulated
between himself and his first ancestor who is also a generalized founder.
All those SNP mutations are from our vantage point completely equivalent.
We'd have to be able to do SNP testing on ancient mummies or bones in order
to possibly see differences between these SNPs.

Ken


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