GENEALOGY-DNA-L ArchivesArchiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-11 > 1163235960
From: "Dennis Wright" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Stephen Oppenheimer's Nomenclature
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 20:06:00 +1100
I think your last comment is the most relevant ..."Indeed, while reading the
book it would be very helpful to know one's own cluster code."
I guess that is what I am trying to do. In your case, Frisian, you will be
R1b-8 and can read his book very much with that in mind. I wish I was in
the same position.
R1b1c Irish Type III
I guess I was unclear. If any of the clusters are similar to those we
speak of on this List it is coincidence. R1b-14 is strictly Oppenheimer's
cluster and it is not found in the source works (e.g., Capelli). He did his
own cluster analysis and labeled them using his own codes that do not relate
to anything in the literature to this point. Obviously Frisian R1b-8 will
probably bear a strong resemblance if not exact identiy to the Frisian
cluster found in the charts of Ken Nordtvedt. If you wish to know if you
are R1b-12, for example, you are out of luck - although you can try to infer
this but that is the best you can do. Oppenheimer will send members of the
public the dataset, but the cluster information is not presently available.
Indeed, while reading the book it would be very helpful to know one's own
Dennis Wright <> wrote:
I will have another go ....
Oppenheimer states his R1b can be divided into 16 clusters labelled R1b-1 to
R1b-16 (with R1b-15 further broken up into 15a, 15b and 15c, and a couple of
His R1b-10 he says is AMH so this is R1b1c ?
His R1b-8 he says is Frisian Modal Haplotype so R1b1c9 (S21+)
His R1b-14 is strongly Irish Gaelic. Is this R1b1c7 (M222+ NW Irish) or
In his notes, Oppenheimer does quote his sources, Underhill et al, Wilson et
al, Capelli et al, etc. Do any of these papers use Oppenheimer's
nomenclature. Perhaps I am dense, but how can his theories be peer-reviewed
with spending the same six months that Oppenheimer took to review the data?
I really would like to get some "proper" labels on his clusters, or the
12-14 marker Haplotype he speaks of for each one, to help with my
understanding of his presentation. If he has stated them in his book, I
would appreciate a page reference, thanks.
Perhaps it is clear to other 'hobbyists' but I am still learning!