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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2006-11 > 1164093415


From: "Eric Olson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Sykes' data shows E3b absent entirelyfrom"CentralEngland" - Hypotheses testing
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:16:55 -0800


David,

I was writing in response to Orin's stated concerns, which I agree with.
Lack of significant sample size, etc. Unwarranted premature conclusions,
etc...

My bias is no secret, it is a hunger for more knowledge of Central European
R1a. For that Hg to gain as much attention and sampling as Western
European R1b and possible subclades may come in time. There does not to be
the same refreshing enthusiam as for Britian with R1b and E3b. Perhaps in
the fullness of time some attention will be directed more toward Central
Europe.

You have gone commercial, so what plans may be waiting in the wings, ir
any, to address the dismal R1a sampling and analysis situation for Central
Europe?

Eric





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> [Original Message]
> From: David Faux <>
> To: <>
> Date: 11/20/2006 10:10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Sykes' data shows E3b absent entirely
from"CentralEngland" - Hypotheses testing
>
> Actually I find Steven's enthusiasm refreshing. Rather reminds me of my
own forays into the world of S28 (R1b1c10). He may be on to something -
perhaps not. However all science begins with observations, then setting
out testable hypotheses. I do believe that by exploring the various
subgroups of E3b, including their diversity indices and geographical
distribution it will eventually be possible to tease out the Neolithic
contribution (if any) and the Roman and Norman - based influence. We may
have to tap into hotspots such as Northern Wales as the base rate in
Britain is low - or wait until groups such as our own amass sufficient
samples (we will have 10,000 British samples in short order) to address the
hypotheses. It is only a matter of time before we move from the realm of
speculation to one with a solid footing in robust data. In the meanwhile
it is great fun to toss around ideas and set the stage for population
genetics studies.
>
> David Faux.
>
> Eric Olson <> wrote:
> Dear Curmudgeon,
>
> Well said!
>
> The idea that the inhabitants of the island of Great Britain remained
fixed
> in place over hundreds, even thousands of years, seems ludicrous. The
> perception of a "doughnut hole" in the distribution of Hg E3b in "Central
> England" is perhaps a result of wishful geographical thinking combined
with
> lack of statistically significant sampling. The history of Great Britain
> is one long story of turmoil and multiple invasions and counter-invasions
> both in time and in space. People moved around, were routed out, fled,
> were sent to Ulster Plantation, etc., etc. That several walls or dykes
> were built in the distant past attests to the over-running of places by
> diverse people over the centuries, from the Romans to the Vikings, and so
> many others. And all this since the LGM.
>
> To find identifiable traces today of such populations still in place in
> extremely small samples seems fanciful. I'd wait for more robust
> samples....and continue to question the veracity of current speculations.
> People are jumping to possible conclusions that are premature...
> ..
> Eric,
> Seattle
>
>
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