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From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Saxon DNA 3ky old - subclade
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:01:30 -0700
References: <200701071452.AA164823072@lrbcg.com><000a01c7329c$10c918d0$6400a8c0@Ken1><000601c732a4$1f6c3900$6501a8c0@Richard>


I1b2* (M223-) is not old I1c (now I1b2a) although a neighbor clade. I1b2*,
10 at 455 and 12 at 454, has never been found in Sweden or Norway as far as
I am aware, while I1b2a-Continental does fairly well there --- 3 percent in
Norway in one database I looked at.

Real I1b2* does not reach anything like the percentages you mention anywhere
that I know of.

Ken


----- Original Message -----
From: "R. & G. Stevens" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Saxon DNA 3ky old - subclade


>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
> To: <>; <>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [DNA] Saxon DNA 3ky old - subclade
>
>
>> If it looks like an I1b2*, quacks like an I1b2*, smells like an I1b2*,
>> unless we can do something about the limited situation, like test for
>> more
>> key markers or do some key SNP tests, it is probably most sensible to
>> assume it is I1b2* rather than an extinct clade. It's not a fish out of
>> water in any case, such as a native AMerican Q or Chinese O.
> ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
>
> The Lichtenstein Cave, where those remains were found, is in the Harz
> Mountains. As far as I can tell, they (and the cave) lie squarely in old
> I1c
> country, that little circle on Rootsi's old I1c distribution map in Figure
> 1
> here:
> http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v75n1/41100/41100.html
>
> Even there, however, in its apparent stronghold, I1b2 (old I1c), with a
> range of 11-14%, is a minority y-haplogroup, outnumbered by I1a and R1b1c.
>
> Perhaps even circa 1,000 B.C. I1b2* represented a smaller tribe interring
> its dead in mountain caves rather than cremating them and burying them in
> the urnfields common among the surrounding peoples.
>
> Rich
>
>
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