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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-01 > 1169336656


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: [DNA] Fw: R1b's Three Main Varieties
Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 16:44:16 -0700


I think the trends in the continental European distribution of R1b with
23,11 at DYS390,391 have been seen for some time. Here's a message from
2004 which catches the uptick in type C R1b in Eastern Europe as well as its
clear warm or hot spot in Greater Frisia or AngloSaxony as I called it in
2004; and on the other hand its relative sparcity in Spain and France and
Ireland.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 8:38 AM
Subject: [DNA] R1b's Three Main Varieties


> Sometime ago I showed the differences in geographical distribution of the
> three main haplotype varieties of R1b. These are listed by Garvey as the
> first three haplotypes in population of the YSTR European database. I
> truncated them for convenience to the DYS 390, 391, 392 form and define
>
> A = 24, 11, 13
> B = 24, 10, 13
> C = 23, 11, 13
>
> Haplotype A is the truncated Atlantic Modal Haplotype. I quote below the
> percentages these three forms contribute to the "R1b" populations (of
> their summed contributions) by region in Europe from the YHRD database.
> (The use of DYS 392 = 13 in Europe is the selector of R1b from the
> database. This is not perfect; as one moves to the south and east in
> Europe, percentages could be affected by leakage of other small European
> haplogroups into selected haplotypes.)
>
> Spain --- 67% --- 22% --- 11%
> France --- 61% --- 26% --- 13%
> Ireland --- 57% --- 25% --- 18%
> London --- 53% --- 28% --- 19%
>
> Rhine --- 51% --- 27% --- 22%
> South Germania --- 48% --- 24% --- 28%
> Southeast Germania --- 44% --- 22% --- 35%
> Northeast Germania --- 44% --- 25% --- 31%
>
> Anglo-Saxony --- 40% --- 20% --- 40%
>
> Scandinavia --- 51% --- 20% --- 29%
> (Finland hardly got any R1bs, so this is mainly Norway + Sweden)
>
> Eastern Europe --- 51% --- 21% --- 28%
>
> North Italia --- 49% --- 26% --- 25%
>
> Haplotype B is remarkably uniform in percentage contribution of R1b
> throughout Europe. Its elevated level for London is interesting or a
> statistical flucuation.
>
> Ireland and London are compromises between indigenous Haplotype A and
> continental variety C, and are all-island averages.
>
> True percentage differences for populations of descendants of founders of
> A, B, and C will be more distinct than above numbers. One-step mutations
> of DYS 390 or DYS 391 since foundings have pushed present populations
> toward each other by mixing. This illustrates power of SNP tags which
> preserve memory of founders. If we had the distinct SNP mutations for
> founders of varieties A, B, and C, we could see today's true geographical
> distributions of their descendants.
>
> Anglo-Saxony stands out with its high percentage of Haplotype C. If one's
> known ancestry is in the British Isles and one has R1b of Haplotype C
> variety, the odds are tilted against that being an "indigenous" R1b and
> toward being a NW European continental R1b brought to the British Isles by
> one of the historic invader/immigrant groups. This tilt should be
> incorporated into all the other surname and related information you have
> about origins of your R1b.
>
> I have put these numbers on a map for better perception of relationships.
> Hopefully, this map will be posted on World Families R1b website at some
> future time.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
> ==============================
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>
>


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