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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-03 > 1172777616


From: "Jackson Montgomery-Devoni" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Challenge to YDNA J Gurus
Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:33:36 -0500
In-Reply-To: <001901c75c2a$8ba69340$6400a8c0@Ken1>


Yes the ages that will come out of this analysis whenever it is done will be
very interesting indeed!

By the way do you think 43 markers are good enough to be included in this
analysis?



Jackson


>From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
>Reply-To:
>To: <>
>Subject: [DNA] Challenge to YDNA J Gurus
>Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 10:53:40 -0700
>
>It seems that the J specialists may have enough 67 marker haplotypes now to
>have determined 67 marker modal haplotypes for a number of robustly
>distinct clades in y-haplogroup J, including in J1 and in J2 (I call such
>haplotypes "founders' haplotypes").
>
>If so, I believe it would be of interest to see a genetic distance matrix
>between those several founders' haplotypes.
>
>It is important, I believe, to with discipline pick the 30 or so slowest
>mutating markers from the 67 (using Chandler's rates, for example), paying
>no regard to which of these slow markers are particularly useful or not in
>identifying the separate clades. Paying such attention will bias the
>marker selection and increase the apparent time between founders. Picking
>the slow markers minimizes occurrences of unseen back mutations having
>taken place in the generational strings between the founders.
>
>This matrix of GDs will give an overview sense for the time periods which
>occured between the existences of the founders relative to haplogroup
>breakup times.
>
>Rough rule of thumb is to divide the GD by twice the sum of mutation rates
>for the 30 or so slow markers you chose to use. This is a characteristic
>time in generations between a split up of the parent clade to the times of
>the founders for the subclades.
>
>Most of us sense that J is a particularly old haplogroup by the standards
>of the other haplogroups commonly dealt with in Europe. It would be
>interesting to see the time scales that emerge from the GD matrix. Maybe
>someone has done this already, and I have just missed it?
>
>See http://knordtvedt.home.bresnan.net and then file FoundersTree for such
>a tree constructed for y-haplogroup I.
>
>
>
>Ken
>
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