Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-03 > 1173288103

From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] DYF 371X result
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:21:43 -0700
References: <>

Very meaningful. You had an event at the arms of DYf371 and your "t"
mutation near one of the repeat segments got duplicated near another repeat
segment. This is the logical opposite of the loss of "t" which seems to be
seen more.

So the scenario is that the repeat segment with its nearby "t" mutation
copied itself to another repeat segment along with the "t" mutation.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Vass" <>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 10:15 AM
Subject: [DNA] DYF 371X result

>I have just received the following result for the subject from FTDNA
> DYF 371X 12t-12t-13c-16c
> I am an R1b1* and can be found as C27F2 at ysearch.
> My DYS 425 result was reported as 12
> Is this result significant or meaningful?
> sam vass
> Reference 2 old posts to this digest:
> <<Gareth, You may be interested to learn that the M284+ haplotype
> from Iberia
> turned out 10c-10c-13c-13c at DYF371
> Thomas Krahn measured a few other of his exclusive multi-copy
> markers. Should I be looking at any particular ones for something
> interesting, given that some kind of unusual mutation has occured in
> the DYF371 region?
> Someday I may run this dna through FTDNA's 38-67 marker measurements
> to see what their DYS425 turns out to be? 10? 13? or maybe a 14
> month wait for middle panel results? Ken>>
> << September 09, 2006 Ken your possible exception is a prime
> candidate for a DYF371 test. I will suggest a reason for the
> unexpected 14 instead of either a 12 or a null. (If I'm right - can I
> claim the beer? The modal DYF371 result for I's (and R1b's too)
> appears to be 10c-12t-13c-14c. This produces the normal result of 12
> for DYS425 which usually only detects the "t" copy. A recombination
> mutation can replace the 12t with a second copy of 10c - this
> produces a null result for DYS425. (There may be other reasons for a
> null at DYS425 but this appears to be the most likely). The 13c and
> 14c copies can mutate independently as well as affect each other via
> recombination - so you can get 10c-12t-13c-13c and 10c-12t-14c-14c
> for example. With "null" DYS425 the underlying DYF371 pattern could
> be 10c-10c-13c-13c or 10c-10c-14c-14c instead of 10c-10c-13c-14c. The
> "c" copies would only appear as "noise" on the DYS425 graph where
> there is a "t" copy present. But if the underlying pattern is
> 10c-10c-14c-14c I think it is possible that given the normal
> variation in PCR amplification the graph might occasionally show a
> noticeable peak for either the 10 or the 14 alleles, which might be
> called as a "normal" DYS425 result of the observed value. A quick
> glance at the OA "Blood of the Isles" data http://
> suggests 10s and 14s are much
> more common than 11s and 13s - there are several 10? results
> suggesting an underlying null with noise from the 10c copy. Gareth>>
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