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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-03 > 1174905356


From: "Dienekes Pontikos" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup N in Hungary
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 03:35:56 -0700
References: <e1ebc51f0703252220i370e24a1nea60454aca152a3d@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <e1ebc51f0703252220i370e24a1nea60454aca152a3d@mail.gmail.com>


An interesting abstract from the ESHG 2005 conference:

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2005/08/eshg-abstracts.html

E. Bogácsi-Szabó et al., Maternal and paternal lineages in ancient and
modern Hungarians


"Hungarian language represents the westernmost group of the
Finno-Ugric language phylum, surrounded entirely by Indo-European
speaking populations. Their linguistic isolation in the Carpathian
basin suggests the possibility that they might also show a significant
genetic isolation. According to historical data at the end of the 9th
century Hungarian conquerors from the west side of the Ural Mountains
settled down into the Carpathian Basin and took the hegemony. To
determine the genetic background of Hungarians we examined
mitochondrial and Y chromosomal DNA from ancient `conquerors` from
Hungary, originated from the 10th century and from modern
Hungarian-speaking adults from today's Hungary and Transylvanian
Seklers (Romania). DNA was extracted from 35 excavated ancient bones
and hair samples of 125 and 80 modern Hungarians and Seklers,
respectively. Mitochondrial haplogroups were determined with HVS I
sequencing and RFLP typing. The mtDNA HVS I sequences were compared
with 2615 samples from 34 Eurasian populations retrieved from
published data. ARLEQUIN 2.001 Software was used to estimate genetic
distances between populations. The resulting matrix was summarized in
two dimensions by use of Multidimensional Scaling. The M46 biallelic Y
chromosomal marker (TAT, often called Uralic migration marker) was
also investigated from 2 ancient, 34 modern Hungarian and 60 Sekler
samples. Our results suggest that the modern Hungarian gene pool is
very similar to other central European ones concerning the
mitochondrial and Y chromosomal markers, while the ancient population
contains more Asian type elements."

It is not very clear from the abstract, but the suggestion seems to be
that it was detected in the ancient remains, since Tat was the only Y
chromosome marker tested. Hopefully a detailed article of this will
appear.

On 3/25/07, Asparagirl <> wrote:
> Ken Nordtvedt wrote:
> > I was reviewing ISOGG tree's brief descriptions of some of
> > the y-haplogroups. They say N dominates the lineages of
> > Finns and Hungarians. The first is true; but is there
> > evidence of much N found in Hungary? I did not think so.
>
> And Lawrence Mayka wrote:
> > Semino 2000 did not find any N in Hungary at all:
>
> The only currently known Hungarian N is a SCHREYER man who is in my
> SCHREIER family surname project at FTDNA. He is ySearch ID TNAA3. As
> you can see, he seems to be part of a separate "southern" N cluster
> apart from the Finns and Scandinavians. FTDNA reports his closet
> "RAO" matches among Poles, Czechs, Slovakians, and the Baltic States.
>
> According to the Haplogroup N project at FTDNA...
> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/N%20Y-DNA%20Project/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on
> ...he's also the furthest-known-south N in the project. He can trace
> his line back to Pest (now Budapest), Hungary circa 1820, to a man who
> was born circa 1780. The family later moved to Poland.
>
> It is still unclear whether his family was originally Jewish,
> Protestant, or Catholic, as that older generation's ancestor cannot be
> located in the local baptismal records, though the later generations
> were Christian. (SCHREIER and its surname variant families in Eastern
> Europe are almost uniformly Ashkenazic Jewish; the two samples known
> so far are both G5 and match 33/37. In western Europe, particularly
> Germany, they're almost uniformly Lutheran, and the one sample known
> so far is likely I1a.) In any case, it looks like his paternal
> ancestors may have been ancient Magyars.
>
> Too bad FTDNA doesn't test for N subgroups yet.
>
>
> - Brooke Schreier Ganz
> Los Angeles, California
>
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--

Dienekes' Anthropology Blog
http://dienekes.blogspot.com

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