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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-04 > 1175450697


From: "R. & G. Stevens" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] A New N. Euro R1b1c Haplotype Cluster ???
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 14:04:18 -0500
References: <920629.80527.qm@web57002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Maddi" <>
To: "Genealogy-DNA List" <>
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] A New N. Euro R1b1c Haplotype Cluster ???



> I understand exactly what you're asking here. I think
> it might be useful, at least provisionally, to include
> those with 385a-b=11-14 and who also share 5 or more
> of the possible cluster's 7 off-modal values.
>
> Your 385a-b=11-11 may very well represent a recLOH
> from R1b's strongly modal 11-14 values. So there is no
> telling when such a recLOH may have occurred in your
> paternal line. If there is such a cluster, as you
> think, then there are potentially other members of the
> cluster whose paternal lines didn't have the recLOH at
> 385a-b. And those who match the possible cluster's
> off-modal values and share 385a-b=11-11 with you may
> have had independent recLOH's in their paternal lines
> or may be a sub-cluster (of which you would be a
> member) within the cluster which had a recLOH a
> relatively long time ago.
>
> There are a lot of possibilities here, so the best
> thing is to look at all the haplotypes with those
> possibilities in mind. Then come up with some sort of
> idea of what has caused the haplotypes to reach the
> point they have.
>
> Mike Maddi
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thanks, Mike. Excellent answer.

Since I match a second cousin (once removed), and we both have 11,11 at 385,
I know our RecLoH (if that is what is responsible) goes back at least to my
great-great-grandfather (our common ancestor), but I don't know where it
might have occurred from him on back. Likewise, as you pointed out, there is
no way of telling at what point an apparent cluster member's y-line acquired
those values.

I guess what keeps the other markers from being subject to this same sort of
doubt is that they don't tend to move 3 places in one fell swoop.

Rich

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