GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-04 > 1175708645


From: "Steven Bird" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] SATTERTHWAITE-LANCASTER match E3b1a2
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 13:44:05 -0400
In-Reply-To: <BKEPIIDHHKEPCMDIEBKBGEPHDIAA.andrew.en.inge@skynet.be>


Andrew,

I would agree with everything you have said. Anytime the Normans or a
statement such as "came with the Conqueror" appears in a family history, I
am instantly suspect.

You will note that the coalescene times that I have posted for the five
families being discussed point to a pre-Norman time frame in all but one
case, that of the Satterthwaite-Lancaster lines. This would appear to argue
strongly against a happy-go-lucky Norman lord spreading his genetic seed all
over England and Scotland (and perhaps Ireland) during the early to
mid-second millenium.

:-)

Steve




>
>I am a bit sceptical about most such proposals despite being forced to
>consider one in my own project. In the Lancaster project we are seeing one
>male line in an entire region, and the family trees for parts of the
>history
>of this surname in this region are known to be fruitful enough that this
>would be a very big coincidence unless we really have found the family
>known
>to history.
>
>Also, Lancaster in this region was a very early surname by any standards.
>In
>Ireland, surnames were not bound to male lines in any such way.
>
>The fact that one of the Lancaster enfeoffments seems to have been the
>source of a newer surname carrying a side branch of the same Y-DNA line
>looks like another unlikely coincidence.
>
>We often have had discussions about equating clans, surnames, and Y-DNA
>lines on this list. Basically, they are all inherited differently, at least
>in Irish history. Even if we were dealing with a well known English family
>with a good family tree, in most cases identifying the Y-DNA of a single
>line will not convince me that we've found a line back to the Norman times,
>because these families OFTEN passed on "surnames" without minding who the
>father was. That's why it is so important in my mind that the Lancasters of
>Westmorland ceased being a major noble family very early and dispersed so
>widely. This gives statisical signficance.
>
>

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