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From: "Sean M. Silver" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Ten Lost Tribes, Far East,esp. Japan (non-European R1b admixture)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:19:44 -0400
References: <mailman.1783.1176446295.3143.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1783.1176446295.3143.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>


Sasson said:

> I do not think R1b were readily available for mixing with Israelites.

> The elevated level of R1b in Holland can be explained by the fact that all
> European converts were coming to Holland to escape persecution.


On the contrary, Sasson. There is some eminent research on an Eastern R1b
that has its proposed origins in Southern Anatolia, which is where the
greatest genetic variance has been found. This same Eastern R1b has been
found in populations of Armenia and among the Iraqi Kurds. I'll refer you to
Cinnioglu et. Al. (Excavating Y-chromosome haplotype strata in Anatolia,
http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/HG_2004_v114_p127-148.pdf) and Weale
(Armenian Y chromosome haplotypes reveal strong regional structure...
www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Weale-HG-01-Armenia.pdf).

Whether you prescribe to the notion of the bible being figurative or
literal, its documented that Abraham and Sarah first immigrated to Southern
Anatolia (modern day Turkey) with Abraham's father just after they left Ur.
This could easily have been a point of admixture. It could also have been
Greek and Roman influence, as our members have found Greek and Sicilian
matches at Y12, as well as from portions of Iran (some of which match beyond
Y12).

We're beginning to find some hints of this Eastern R1b in portions of my R1b
Jewish project, particularly among the DYS393=12 individuals. The Eastern
R1b theory is of a second and smaller refugiam for R1bs during the Last
Glacial Maxim within Anatolia, below the Caucasus mountains. This group is
theorized to be the predecessors of European R1b from a founder who never
continued westward into Europe.

I'm not saying that there's a definite link between these R1bs and the
ancient Hebrews, but considering the genetic variance and relative
similarities between the 393=12 individuals, it could likely be surmised
there's a more ancient founder's affect, as opposed to a European admixture.
I'll especially emphasize this last point with the fact that with roughly
40-50 393=12 members, we have little to no non-Jewish matches beyond Y12.
The Cohanim (all 20 of them) in the project also seem to have two distant
founders affects, and I'm presently trying to find a common tie between the
two. All of their matches beyond Y12 are not only of known Jewish ancestry,
but also have an oral tradition of being Cohanim.

Of course I'm not saying that there's no European admixture among Jews? We
do have some AMH within the project, but the markers of those individuals
differ greatly from the group I've mentioned. Even a decent portion of our
393=13 do not have many European matches, though I'll admit I haven't had
the change to sort and analyze much of the 393=13 group. I will note,
though, that all members participating in the project do have a known Jewish
paternal heritage without any knowledge of conversion to Judaism. That's the
criteria for the project.

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