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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-04 > 1176709834


From: "Sasson Margaliot" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Malaspina et al (2001)'s Cohens -- an answer ?
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:50:34 +0300
References: <4622E960.4000306@comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <4622E960.4000306@comcast.net>


On 4/16/07, Bonnie Schrack <> wrote:

[ Dienekes wrote : ]
> >The CMH-12 is an interesting candidate, but there has been really no
> >evidence to suggest that it, rather than some other haplotype, is the
> >more frequent, or oldest. We simply know that there are several
> >examples of Cohens bearing it.
> >
> These are simply false statements. Perhaps he feels that if such things
> are just repeated enough times, people will come to believe them?


Bonnie,

Why do you suggest others researchers want people to believe false ideas?

Everyone is allowed to have doubts about the conclusions you have reached.

How can anyone take it seriously when he suggests that there is no
> evidence to suggest that the CMH-12 is more frequent than other
> haplotypes among Cohanim?



The fact is that you simply didn't present such evidence!

We don't even know what is the percentage of J1-CMH-12 among the CMH-6
Cohanim.

Isn't it possible that a network of haplotypes exists
which has a greater estimated TMRCA than J1-CMH-12 ?

If CMH-6 was estimated to point to "Bonze Age",
wouldn't J1-CMH-12 be estimated to much more recent times ?

In addition, the data that was collected commercially
AFTER the 12-marker modal of J1 Cohanim was popularized as "new CMH",
the unrecoverable bias was introduces into commercial testing,


There's no question at this point that the CMH is the most common
> haplotype among Cohanim,


That we know since nineties.


and there are only two clusters in haplogroup J
> among whom the CMH is found: in J1 with YCAII=22-22,

where the CMH-12 is
> modal among Cohanim


Again, we already know that the known network of J1 Cohanim
do have J1-CMH-12 as their modal haplotype.

(And yet Al was doing his research on J2 samples in the area of J1-CMH-12
aomehow assuming J1-CMH-12 can be relevant to J2 research)


(and this modal haplotype can be extended to 67
> markers),



If so, then a more reliable TMRCA estimate of J1-CMH-12 can be given - what
is it ?


and in J2a1b, which has a different 67-marker modal haplotype.



Do you mean there is a recognizable network of haplotypes around such
67-marker modal haplotype ?

Is there enoght information to estimate TMRCA ?


Since as of today, not a single J2a1b who is a Cohen has been found,


How many unrelated CMH-6 individuals in J2a1b were asked about
their Cohen connections? Without that detail, the significance of this fact
cannot be evaluated.

In addition, wasn't only half of collected CMH-6 samples in J2 actually
confirmed as J2a1b ?


while great numbers have been found among those in J1, I don't see much
> room for ambiguity.



If the J1-CMH-12 Cohanim form a tight network with certain TMRCA,
how does the greater number of this networks's members makes
this J1-CMH-12 network more important than other haplotype networks
with same or greater TMRCA ?!!



Sasson Margaliot

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