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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-05 > 1178315897


From: "David Wilson" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] E3a Mosselle, Bining, Eastern France 1700
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:58:17 -0700


It is difficult to find a single convincing explanation for rare events. We
know that representatives of predominantly African haplogroups can be found
scattered about Europe, and I wouldn't be surprised to find the occasional
European haplogroup in Africa or the Far East or some other location where
it is conspicuous for its rarity. Even when masses of people don't move
around, single individuals do.

We know that there are, for example, A, B, E and E3 haplogroups in the
British Isles among individuals with no known history of African ancestry.
Walt's E3a in Europe is to my mind another one of those rare events that
will be hard to explain, though possible answers do not lie beyond all
conjecture. The Romans are always named as a possible explanation for rare
haplogroups in out of the way places as the legions they posted in portions
of their empire were often recruited in other areas. One can also look at
the Moorish period in Spain and acknowledge the possible flow of genes in
both directions across the Strait of Gibraltar for a 700-year period. Also,
I bet more than a few Near Easterners and North Africans came back to Europe
with returning crusaders in the middle ages. I will mention in passing the
power of conventional maritime commerce to move people from one side of the
Mediterranean to the other over the last 3,000 years or so.

One thing Walt might want to consider is getting an extended haplotype -- 67
markers or more -- and seeing how it compares to other long E3a haplotypes.
If he stands at a genetic distance of only three or four from some of them,
that miht constitute evidence of recent common ancestry and thus a recent
presence of his E3a ancestry in Europe (meaning within the last 300 years or
so, since he has tracked it that far). But if there is a larger genetic
distance and few close matches to be found, that may constitute evidence for
a much older common ancestor and a longer isolated presence of his E3a
forebears in Europe.

David Wilson




On 5/4/2007 10:55:15 AM, Walter Gabennesch () wrote:
> Hi Eric,
>
> No I am not an African American. I
> don't know what you would call me if one had to put a label on it. My E3a
is not a result of the slave situation in this country. The only thing that
is African is my Y-Chromosome. My ancestors came from England, Wales,
Scotland, Germany and France. The one from France is the African. My family
is from Cincinnati, Ohio, where I was born.
>
> My E3a ancestor, Chistophe Gabennesch, was born in 1819 and came to the
U.S. from Bining, Lorraine France where he was born. He came in 1848 via Le
Harve to New Orleans final destination was Cincinnati, Ohio. Christophe's
> trade was a tailor and in Cincinnati he set up a family business making
> clothes. In France his ancestors are shown to
> be stone masons.
>
> We have traced my surname family back to Bining, France using civil and
> parish records to about 1700. The indication is that the first recorded
> birth date of an ancestor was 18 February 1720 in a town near Bining
> called Kalhausen. His surname was spelled Gabernist, given name was
Michel.
> The father of Michel Gabernist was Christian Gabernist. I think the area
> at that time was called Lothringa and part of Germany. The next generation
> changed the spelling of the n

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