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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-05 > 1178378521


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Old S21
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 09:22:01 -0600
References: <752236.13729.qm@web50103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


Other than the 390 = 23 and 492 = 13, how does the broader S21+ modal
haplotype as we presently know it differ from the Atlantic R1b1c modal
haplotype. The Frisian R1b haplotype represents just a subset of S21+


----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo W. Little" <>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:49 AM
Subject: [DNA] Old S21


> I'd like to re-visit an S21 hypothesis for a new round of discussion ...
>
> Let's assume S21 is an old SNP that predated the LGM, and had a
> relatively even distribution in the various western European refuges
> during the LGM and Younger Dryas.
>
> In that case, we should expect to find S21 (or it's surrogate DYS492=13)
> distributed in low levels throughout western Europe.
>
> This pre-LGM S21 "background radiation" could explain some of the known
> S21+ haplotypes from Iberia, Italy, et al showing high genetic distance
> from S21 modal.
>
> The modern S21 that we see in areas such as Frisia, Germany, and England
> could also be the result of later prolific founders in Northern Europe.
>
> (Likewise, the modern non-S21 we see in Iberia, Wales, Scotland, etc
> could also be the result of later prolific founders along the Atlantic
> facade)
>
> S21 from an early Germanic hotspot could also have spread across Europe
> with post-Roman Germanic migrations. We'd expect those haplotypes to be
> closer to modal S21.
>
> Most known S21+ males, and all known DYS492=13 males, come from the FTNDA
> customer base, which is heavily biased toward Britain and Northern Europe.
>
> Consequently, "modal" S21 may just represent a northern European
> sub-clade, rather than being indicative of ancestral S21.
>
> More testing from Eastern and Southern Europe would shed more light --
> and my hat's off to project admins for those area who are trying to grow
> the number of participants.
>
> Fire away -- I'm not convinced this hypothesis is correct and appreciate
> the comments.
>
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