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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-05 > 1180082528


From: "quinn" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] The Basques and Scholarship
Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 18:42:08 +1000


Personally I have a suspicion that the very attractive male that contrived
to have his boys plaster themselves all over west Europe was a priest of the
Indo European religion. In fact I think there is a good comparison with the
Arab Empire and Muhammad The Prophets descendants whether Shiite ( Caliphate
and Spanish/Port) or Sunni.



Where the arab empire went, so did its religion, language and culture. I
think the Indo Europeans were an earlier version of the arab empire and
remarkably started from the same area, near enough. Being soldiers and
priests they tended to be male.. conquerors and married/concubinated.. the
local women.



However there were remarkably few "arabs" governing their parts of Spain,
Portugal. But probably still disproportionate progenitors of Spaniards and
Portuguese. They only had a millennium and a half so far but the IE had from
the Later Bronze Age.



An earlier precedent would have been the megalith folks, who must just have
been so chuffed at harvesting oats and barley etc. I expect they had
preiest, kings and blimey a warrior culture.



Before that whatever brilliant mob of people invented pots. I reckon there
was a Kong of the Pot, Priest of the Pot and even a Warrior class of the pot
wielding people.



Before that the brilliant inventor of the bow and arrow.... None of those
arrived in Australia so all after "The Comet".....



The Irish Culture of king warrior and farmer was already strongly in
existence before the IE priests arrived with their new fangled ideas. Which
got grafted onto the Earlier culture and just as when Christianity arrived
couldn't destroy the Fairys and even today your ardent Catholic will still
read/believe the tea leaves. My aunt, God rest her soul could read the "tay
laves".



Don't ask me what priestly, warrior, kingly wave brought the R1b but likely
one or all of the above...



Brian quinn











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Message: 4

Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 22:37:22 -0400

From: "E. Peltosalo" <>

Subject: Re: [DNA] The Basques and Scholarship

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What's really most likely is that there is no great substratum to be found.



Now may be the time to present some of the strongest evidence:



Celtic culture, as depicted in the Irish histories and sagas, and as

described by classical writers, is universally accepted by all

Indo-Europeanists to be the most traditionally Indo-European of all along

with the Vedic tradition in India. In Celtic culture, all of the original

Indo-European institutions remain intact, the role of the priest, the role

of the king, the role of the warrior, the role of the farmer, down even to

the rituals and programs. Dozens, if not hundreds of articles have been

written on this, for nearly two centuries.



These institutions could not have been borrowed all together. There is no

precedent in history for it. People must have come from the East as Celts,

and they *must* have remained, as Ireland continued

in its ancient Indo-European manner into the Seventeenth Century!





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Message: 8

Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:27:04 -0700 (PDT)

From: ellen Levy <>

Subject: Re: [DNA] The Basques and Scholarship

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Rich:



I'm limited in my response time tonight, but did want

to note that we may be looking at the issue to

narrowly. There were probably multiple language

families and language isolates spoke in Europe from

the Paleolithic through to to the Neolithic and

Post-Neolithic period. We already know of the

existence of three isolates in close proximity to each

other: Iberian, Basque and Etruscan. There were

probably many more. So R1b could have been all along

the Atlantic fringe and widespread in the Paleolithic,

Mesolithic, and Neolithic, with the fringe populations

speaking a variety of non-IE languages, some related,

some not. Vasconic could have come in later - as you

suggest, during the Neolithic, pushing out the earlier

languages in that region. Vasconic perhaps contains

suggestions of a substrata language itself?



Ellen









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Message: 11

Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 01:39:20 -0300

From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>

Subject: Re: [DNA] The Basques and Scholarship

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I agree in that it is important to think less in terms

of large homogenous areas but more localized states/

communities.



Peter







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