GENEALOGY-DNA-L Archives

Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-06 > 1181618199


From: "Dora Smith" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup K2 Found in Two British Jeffersons
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:16:39 -0500
References: <BAY111-DAV69CFD708728CCCCCC1F1EB1190@phx.gbl>


I'm pretty sure that close matches to Jefferson have previously been found
in Spain. The difficulty people seem to be having is explaining how they
got to Spain. K2 does not appear to be intrinsic to Spain.

I think I just learned how Sam came up with his figure for Somalia while
looking up the history of K2.

>From Wikipedia:

Haplogroup K2-M70 has been detected in over 7% of men (10 of 139
individuals) in a sample of modern Iraqis and 7% of Northern Somalis, which
is much higher than its frequency in other populations.

K2 (M70, M184, M193, M272) Found in a significant minority of Iraqis,
Ethiopians, and Somalians; also found at low frequency throughout Southwest
Asia, Northern Africa, and Southern Europe

Not everyone who is K2 is a "close match" for Thomas Jefferson. He belongs
to Gareth HEnsen's alpha category (one of three). He isn't dissimilar to
the five other K2 alpha's on that page, all English.

K2 M70 is believed to have originated in Asia and migrated back to Africa.
I think that actually it back migrated with E3b during the Neolithic
agricultural expansion. 78% of the men of Somali are E3b1.

It is seen at high frequncies at Egypt, Oman, Tanzania, Ethiopia, and
Morocco and is expecially prominent in the Fulbe wherever that is, and it
must be too small to bother with Google Earth. Bothering with Google
Earth... Google Earth believes that Fulbe is someplace near Washington DC,
and offers various alternatives all in the U.S.

Moors and Jews did not carry the gene to Spain in neolithic times. I think
that actually genes did not travel from the Middle East to Spain in
neolithic times. Genes would have had to row across the sea from Morocco
to Spain. I actually don't know if that is very likely or not.

Another possiblity is that they were brought to Spain as slaves. The
Spanish imported large numbers of slaves from Africa and from other parts of
Europe, even England, as booty or captives in war. I don't know if slavery
ever actually ended in Spain after Roman times; certainly it was going
strong by the 14th century. After 1600 Europeans tended to prefer that
slaves look very different from Europeans, dark skinned with kinky hair, but
in medieval times Spaniards did not have such prejudices.




Yours,
Dora Smith
Austin, TX


----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Mayka" <>
To: <>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] Haplogroup K2 Found in Two British Jeffersons


> In YHRD, I entered the 9 markers (in FTDNA order)
> 13-24-15-10-13,16-12-15-27, but got no matches. However, changing DYS392
> from 15 to 14 got 4 matches, all of them Iberian-looking:
>
> Maracaibo, Venezuela [European] 1 / 111 Eurasian MP / European MP / Other
> European MP
> Northern Portugal 2 / 564 Eurasian MP / European MP / Western European MP
> Venezuela [Wayuu] 1 / 48 Amerindian MP
>
> Anyone who subscribes to the conventional Out Of Iberia Hypothesis for R1b
> should have no difficulty accepting the possibility that a small amount of
> K2 hitched a ride. I myself find this much more likely than an Egyptian
> or
> Somali origin for Jefferson's haplotype.
>
>> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Sam Sloan
>> I feel that the probabilities are greater that the two
>> British Jeffersons who are a match to Thomas Jefferson also
>> came from Egypt or Somalia in their ancestry, rather than
>> existing in Europe as a tiny insignificant part of the
>> population for many generations.
>
>
> -------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to
> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the
> quotes in the subject and the body of the message



--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.465 / Virus Database: 269.5.7/771 - Release Date: 4/21/2007 11:56 AM

This thread: