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From: "Peter A. Kincaid" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] The People of the Lightning: Fir Bolg and Belgae
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:55:27 -0300
References: <749628.32646.qm@web83722.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>


This seems to be a bit of misinformation in this thread.
A couple of quick points are as follow.

The ancestry of Rhodri Mawr's in under debate. We can
only go back to his grandfather Gwriad with confidence.
For one good source discussing this issye see
Sims-Williams Patrick. "Historical Need and Literary
Narrative: a Caveat from Ninth Century Wales." The Welsh
History Review. 17 (1994), 1-40.

Coel Hen and Coel Godebog are not the same person. I'd
like to see a good source that says either are of the Kingdom
of Strathclyde (ie. Alcluith).

Flemings can be from France, Belgium or the Netherlands. Ysearch
has a number of Flemings (356V2, 365SQ, 4MUFD, 67XMK,
8AMQZ, A4XAM, AR9PC, BJ8NU, CBFD7, CU3XN, FGRCY,
G4AGE, GC3JY, GFCRX, HZQJU, K3SMX, MCF73, PGPJ9,
RAP5W, SW6U4, U6PF6, U6XRS, VE4M2, WNHWG, WUCCA,
WV2QW, WWVRP, Y7H4D, Y9W99, ZSVPT, ZUGB6) and none
are really that close to the R1b1c7 modal given as M5UKQ (remember
some are only tested for 12 markers).

Peter




----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN PLUMMER" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [DNA] The People of the Lightning: Fir Bolg and Belgae


> Michael Powell Siddons, The Development of Welsh Heraldry, shows families
> of Dunn and Powel descended from patriarch Rhys ap Tewdwr and a Welsh
> Evans family descended from Edwin. Both Edwin and Rhys ap Tewdwr descend
> from Rhodri Mawr who Bartrum traces from Coel Hen or Coel Godebog, who
> originated in Strathclyde. The ysearch R1b1c7's include Dunn, Evans, and
> Powell.
>
> I would invite any of the Milesian persuasion to hunt through the 17
> volumes of Bartrum and 2 of Siddons and anywhere else for other Welsh
> R1b1c7 familes descended from the Dyfed branch of the Deisi which a less
> reliable source than Bartrum connects with Fedelmid, grandson of Niall of
> the Nine Hostages. Or if you think Fortchern the son of Fedelmid was the
> one in Wales, look in Powys too. I just don't see them, except for Morgan
> (and Price and Blayney if you think the Welsh Vortigern was from Niall and
> not Gloywf)
>
> Niall, his brother Brion, his son's father-in-law Vortigern, Erc, Old
> King Cole - I don't think it is just about Niall of the Nine Hostages
> anymore. I see we have an R1b1c7 named Fleming. Where are the Flemings
> from? Oh yeah, they're from Belgium.
>
> John Plummer
>
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