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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-06 > 1181937854


From: "Elizabeth O'Donoghue" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Milesians rather than The People of theLightning:FirBolgand Bel...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:04:14 +0100
In-Reply-To: <c51.12a3dcf9.33a33cda@aol.com>


John, this is great stuff you've given me - I hadn't seen Rawlinson B.502
before. You wrote:

'The chieftains of the Ui Echach Coba of Co. Down were Maguinness and
McCartan...And interestingly, the largest proportion of both Maguinness
and McCartan samples in the Trinity study are I haplogroup, or old I1c'
---
A lot of them are, but I think you need a recount of the Trinity samples.

Guinness/McGuinness - 58/102 are R1b3
McCartan - 7/13 are R1b3

(R1b3 is R1b1c, is it not?)
---
You said of the Ui Eachach Cobo - 'It is also the main tribe singled out
by Irish annalists as Cruithin.'
---
Yes, my reference to O Corrain says that as well - but as I pointed out,
with the pedigree ascribed to the Ui Eachach Cobo tying them to the
Eoghanacht/Milesians, in more sources than Rawlinson B.502, that would be
contradictory. The fact that fully half of the Trinity McGuinness and
McCartan samples are R1c creates a question mark. In addition, a quarter of
the McGuinesses are NWIMH. This is another example of a mix within a tribe,
supporting the likelihood of the latest conquering group assimilating the
subject peoples, so by the time of surnames, they all took the leader's
name. As I said earlier, the Ui Eachach Cobo '...could have been the
overlords of the conquered Cruithin, much as the O'Briens seem to be
Dalcassian Eoghanacht over the Deisi tribes.'

I've looked at the I1c Y-Clan Study at Family Tree and I see there that they
mention the Trinity study and input from Ken Nordtvedt, where they compare
Trinity's data and describe the Isles I1c as Cruithne/Picts. That all fits
together quite well. My only caveat is that not all the Ui Eachach Cobo
were Cruithne.

According to various annals and references, the Cobo were a branch of the Ui
Eachach Mumhan, of which the O'Donoghues Mor were chiefs - who feature in
the Eoghanacht Genealogies from The Book of Munster, though the Cobo aren't
included there. I'm delighted to find the reference you provided.

BTW, the maps at The Irish History in Maps site you gave me seem to have a
void where the O'Donoghues/Eoghanacht Loch Lein/Raithlind dominated in Kerry
from the 11th -16th centuries. No wonder you only mentioned O'Sullivans and
McCarthys in your posts when speaking of the Munster Eoghanacht. I must
find some better maps online.

Thanks for your help.

Elizabeth









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