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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-06 > 1182163176


From: "Arch Yeomans" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] Irish Chieftains DNA & The People of the Lightning: FirBolgand Belgae
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 03:39:36 -0700
References: <KHEKIJEABJGJEKDPFEDMKEEFDNAA.elizabethod@eircom.net><000401c7b06b$cf21da40$4001a8c0@BigMem2>
In-Reply-To: <000401c7b06b$cf21da40$4001a8c0@BigMem2>


I missed this post. Interesting, as I made the point of a minority
perhaps bringing the culture and language instead of a genetic
invasion. Therefore I would suspect whoever brought the Celtic
language and culture to Ireland are not R1b1c7 but are associated with
a different subclade. R1b1c6 seems to be the perfect fit and from all
the data I've collected R1b1c6 appears to be spread in all the Celtic
regions of Western Europe. It is found in Scotland, Ireland, Wales,
England, Galicia, France, Switzerland, Germany and Iberia. Seems like
the Basque/Iberian hypothesis may need some rethinking as well. The
estimated age of the subclade puts it nicely within the Urnfield
Culture which may very well be proto-Celtiberian (perhaps even itself
an adoption of a culture mixed with Iberian genetics). How it was
transmitted to the British Isles just might perhaps be explained by
the Irish mythologies as we have no proof that an invasion from
Central Europe to the the British Islands ever occurred but we have
stories of it happening from Iberia. I don't recall much of an R1b1c7
presence in Iberia, if any, but R1b1c6 is there quite extensively and
also found in both Ireland and Britain. Which makes me suspect there
is a connection.

Arch

On 6/16/07, John McEwan <> wrote:
> Elizabeth O'Donoghue said
> ...........
> John P, if you'd like to conflate with the Fir Bolg/Belgae, you can add
> the
> Phoenician god Bel and Balor of the Evil Eye
> ....
> <snip>
> ....... Eoghan
> (southern half) is Eochaid - horseman, from whence comes Ui Eachach (Ech
> meaning horse).
> ......
> <snip>
> .....
> An interesting thing about the Belgae - Caesar calls them in his Gallic
> Wars
> 'the most warlike of the Celts in Gaul', and many scholars consider them
> to
> have an admixture of Germanic blood, from Transrhinean sources.
> ......
>
> Now I have been reading these posts with some interest, but at this
> point I have to raise an observation, not a challenge just an
> observation. The Fir Bolg/Belgae are reputed to have got to Ireland via
> Britain somewhere between 0-1500BC according to these sources. However,
> if you look at a map of "Gaul"
> http://www.unrv.com/provinces/gaul-map.php
> for instance and think what haplogroups they consist of (especially in
> R1b) you quickly realise the mix in this location today is quite
> different than what is in Ireland (R1b1c6, R1b1c9, R1b1c10 are much more
> frequent versus a virtual absence in Ireland and R1b1c7 is virtually
> absent). Thus any changes would have had to have occurred after that
> time. There is little or no historical evidence for such major shifts
> that can be reconciled with the current distribution. This only leaves
> one solution, those that brought the celtic technology and "gods" to
> Ireland constitute a *very* small proportion of the current day
> population.
>
> Cheers
>
> John McEwan
>
>
>
>
>
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