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Archiver > GENEALOGY-DNA > 2007-06 > 1182440097


From: "Ken Nordtvedt" <>
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b1c10 - Unique Markers?
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:34:57 -0600
References: <BAY111-DAV43BFE16E39812477FEC56B1100@phx.gbl>


a generation = 30 years. I'm not wedded to this number for ancient times,
but I use it to avoid useless arguments on the list. I tend more to want to
talk in generations as measure of age.

I never mentioned R1b1c7 (at least I hope I didn't). You can't date SNP
mutations prior to the post-agriculture era --- only confine them to branch
segments whose endpoints are relatively dated.

One can only make age estimates for clade founders (such as NW Irish
25/11/14,etc.) and for branch points where branch lines to separate clades
separate. I believe I only gave variances for several clades in any case.
The variance for the NW Irish clade was sufficiently large as compared to
the others, I believe it could not have originated as recently as the
quasi-historic figure in question.
This would probably force some other populations such as I1a-AS and
R1b-Frisian and R1b-Scot to be uncomfortably young as well. My clade age
estimates tend to be younger than most folks' claims, but it is interesting
that I'm starting to see a faction coming up now with even younger clade age
estimates. Most interesting.

Have you ever found some rather obvious NW Irish haplotypes which were typed
negative on M222? Only a decent number of such cases would allow an
interpretation that M222+ is younger than NW Irish

Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Mayka" <>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [DNA] R1b1c10 - Unique Markers?


> I'm not sure how you're calibrating all these calculations into actual
> years. And it is not clear whether your NWIrish is specifically R1b1c7,
> or
> something older and more diverse of which R1b1c7 is merely a more recent
> branch--or even vice-versa.
>
> M5UKQ is the modal for R1b1c7. The Ysearch entries marked as R1b1c7
> average
> about a GD of 7 (at 67 markers) from the modal, and very few are more than
> 10 away. The most distant Irish R1b1c7 from the modal is XVVX6, still
> only
> 15 away. Thus, Irish R1b1c7 is clearly a young clade.
>
> CC54Z is an amazing outlier, a GD of 26 from the modal. If indeed he is
> R1b1c7, his patrilineal history is mysterious, and certainly very, very
> different from the regular NWIrish R1b1c7. On Ysearch, his nearest
> neighbor
> is a GD of 23 away.
>
>> [mailto:] On Behalf Of Ken Nordtvedt
>> NWIrish R1b is also probably much older than any Ui Neill fellow.
>
>
>
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